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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2022, 23:26 
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7970 / 209.9 here with Garmin induced ballast up front.

Yea, if you want to pack much at all in the aft storage with 1 or no passengers up front it will be tough with full fuel, even with the wakeboard ballast bag trick Anthony has taught us.

At the other end, loading the plane up in a couple weeks with a bunch of dudes on a short flight. Our heftiest fella will be relegated to the lav to keep us from being out front of the CG.

CG takes management - but isn’t that limiting.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2022, 23:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
Hmmm, So much for saving weight by going Garmin to add back what there taking out to keep Plane in Balance.

Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 08:10 
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I fly solo a lot. When I did my panel I put exactly enough weight in the nose to allow me to have full fuel plus 200lbs of lead and be right at the aft limit. I still have a huge payload about(~1600lbs) with full fuel so i am not concerned about carrying a little extra weight around.

I keep 50lbs under each cockpit seat 90% of the time then throw in the other 100lbs whenever I fly solo.

If I am going a long trip with pax I take it all out.

Wakeboard weight bags are cheap, easy and dense.

With a full load of pax you can run into the opposite issue. I flew a flight last spring with 8 adults one of whom was 335lbs. For TO I had to have one of the pax sit in the lab seat to stay away from fwd limit.

So I think when you are at the seating extremes attention has to be paid. That said, I looked at a few citations that would have required almost 500lbs of lead to be in balance with just me and full fuel.

The other ‘issue’ with Piaggio is the zero fuel limit. With my 8 person load I was right up against that. I believe it’s higher on newer airframes. It is also variable based on CG.

If you want a plane to haul 10 200lb people around, with gear, there are better options.

I have done a handful of full gross takeoffs, high and hot too. Plane performs fine, doesn’t feel that different at all.

I also don’t understand what you would fit in the aft baggage that weighs 300lb. I always weigh pax bags w a fish scale. My max back there has been 140lbs and it was FULL.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 08:21 
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I also don’t understand what you would fit in the aft baggage that weighs 300lb. I always weigh pax bags w a fish scale. My max back there has been 140lbs and it was FULL.



Thank you so much for the great answer and explanation. I feel much more confident.

The 300 lbs is just a silly guess, it was late last night. 200 might be closer but even that I would tell my wife to leave the kitchen sink behind.
I am am not even sure if i would get my bikes, which are in travel bags, in the back or not. The bikes are light but with all the other gear (and one set of clubs) for both its 100. then 2 bags at 50 each and yes 200 is a better number. If the daughter comes along that might change it a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 08:54 
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Username Protected wrote:

With a full load of pax you can run into the opposite issue. I flew a flight last spring with 8 adults one of whom was 335lbs. For TO I had to have one of the pax sit in the lab seat to stay away from fwd limit.



Ah now for the Joy rides with friends. Probably wont happen very often but...
Full pax I am way forward with nobody beside me up front. A few light teenage kids up front and bigger adults in the rear gets me right on the front limit for the whole flight but what if the guy in the back wants to come visit in the front during the flight? What is the plane like in flight with pax moving about?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 08:56 
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Username Protected wrote:

The 300 lbs is just a silly guess, it was late last night. 200 might be closer but even that I would tell my wife to leave the kitchen sink behind.
I am am not even sure if i would get my bikes, which are in travel bags, in the back or not. The bikes are light but with all the other gear (and one set of clubs) for both its 100. then 2 bags at 50 each and yes 200 is a better number. If the daughter comes along that might change it a bit.


If the daughter comes along have here sit just behind Co-pilot seat for take off if you need to.

My wife and I fly a bit and we put some of the luggage in coat closet, am item on the floor between double bench and rear facing seat plus maybe a bag on toilet seat to keep w/b in check. This is generally only an issue with over 300 gallons of fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 09:09 
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Ah now for the Joy rides with friends. Probably wont happen very often but...
Full pax I am way forward with nobody beside me up front. A few light teenage kids up front and bigger adults in the rear gets me right on the front limit for the whole flight but what if the guy in the back wants to come visit in the front during the flight? What is the plane like in flight with pax moving about?


:rofl:
Gave me a good chuckle this morning Patrick.
Absolutely no issue.

Also This bird handles turbulence better than most other small jets due to high wing loading. Many times I have been through areas where Challengers are reporting moderate turbulence and I am experiencing light turbulence. More importantly my wife says….meh…not bad.

My good friend who flys for a major is also flying a CJ2 currently.
It is 40 knots faster on 1.5 times the fuel.
He says mine wins in comfort by a stretch.

Another friend who flys a Brand spanking new Gulfstream 550 says Avanti is noticeably quieter than his G.

All planes are compromises.
Sure, I would occasionally like 70 more gallons of fuel onboard and 50 more knots on same or less fuel.

Most of the time my flights are toooo short :D

Still grinning

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 11:53 
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Pax moving about is not noticeable.

The plane is so quiet, with a headset off my kids slid the bathroom door closed harder than normal. I clearly heard in the cockpit.

Another example- post Maint the inlet boot switch got flipped and I didn’t catch in preflight. On climb out I could hear the relay clicking every 30s. Had I been in a car on the highway I could not have heard it.

I am not familiar with the folding bikes you describe but one knock on the baggage is the door is just not that big. I usually strap big things to fwd couch.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 12:56 
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I have two Dahon folding bikes which do fit in baggage compartment with a bit more room to spare.

I would suggest NOT putting unopened jar of pickles or similar in baggage compartment.
Thankfully the rest of the food soaked up the pickle juice vs all over the carpet.

36,000 feet doesn’t care if sealed and full or not.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 14:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
Pax moving about is not noticeable.

I am not familiar with the folding bikes you describe but one knock on the baggage is the door is just not that big. I usually strap big things to fwd couch.



That's funny!! :D Not a folding bike, my bike folded up or packed up.

External dimensions: 147 x 36 x 85 cm or 57 x 14 x 33.5 In

Thing we can squeeze it through the door??


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 16:33 
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I fit two 29” large framed enduro style mtbs in the cabin. What u showed will fit

My road bike had a case liked u showed and it fits easily.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 16:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
I fit two 29” large framed enduro style mtbs in the cabin.

While I sit and await my airplane to be flyable, I have been noodling on if it's easy to remove the front couch. If so, might even be worth putting a couple rails in for cargo tiedown tracks.

But before I care enough to take action, I have to get the plane and sit with it for a while and see whether that area would be big enough for interesting things (like bikes).

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 18:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
I fit two 29” large framed enduro style mtbs in the cabin. What u showed will fit

My road bike had a case liked u showed and it fits easily.



You mean the case will fit in the rear hold right?

In the cabin is a no go with my wife! For me to buy this plane and her to be ok with it means it will be her rules on what goes inside. Muddy Bikes, No chance. Her response would be " Can you just not put them in the trunk or get a roof rack!"


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 18:39 
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For me to buy this plane and her to be ok with it means it will be her rules on what goes inside. Muddy Bikes, No chance. Her response would be " Can you just not put them in the trunk or get a roof rack!"

Best reason not to buy the one with the fanciest interior! Definitely avoid white!

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 18:45 
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I bought a bike ‘bag’ that keeps all the grime inside. Great for mtb’s.

Jon - that’s a great idea. I have not tried to remove. I doubt it is difficult.


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