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28 Mar 2024, 04:20 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2021, 00:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
Tony- I get around 1800ft ground roll for conditions you mentioned.

Maybe I traced lines wrong though. On phone nkt iPad.

Thanks Anthony. If I read that chart correctly, at sea level, 30C day, 11500 takeoff weight, no wind, ground roll says about 2200’. That’s not terrible for that warm.

Just looking back at Tony’s post for comparison, and it puts Vr at 117 while Anthony’s chart lists Vr as 106. That’s a big difference. Any explanation why such a difference?
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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2021, 08:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Just looking back at Tony’s post for comparison, and it puts Vr at 117 while Anthony’s chart lists Vr as 106. That’s a big difference. Any explanation why such a difference?


Sorry. Misstyped. 117 would be Vref not Vr. :oops: (although I will say that in the Sim they have you rotating at 120 all the time - sure makes getting control with a V1 cut easier). I know at least one pro pilot who flies the P180 everyday who uses 120 as Vr routinely.

Accelerate/Stop is the distance I think you should really think about in terms of shorter runways. During my first or second day of in aircraft training my instructor and I had a misscommunication - and apparently my head was in my nether regions - and I pulled the power to beta/reverse and used the brakes for all they were worth to stop the airplane on the runway rather than taking off. It took nearly the entire 6,100 feet available to us at KTUL on an 80 degree day. YMMV but 5,000 feet is my minimum runway and at Vr you have no choice but to go with engine loss.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2021, 08:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
1300nm today in a shade over 3 hrs. 70kt tailwind really makes this thing rip. 1780lbs burned.


I didn't do quite as well yesterday - 1216 at FL350 and average of 50kts. Got held at the line by NorCal for 18 minutes which didn't help. Flight time was 3:11 at landed with around 600. 3 on board. Three idiots who don't know how to park their trucks made threading my way to my hangar the hardest part of the flight.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 05:41 
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I’m going to tell you some bad news about the company situation.

You may have noticed a strange delay in the closure of the company bid, despite the multiple announcements of the last year regarding the imminent closure of the procedure.

Today we know that the proposed acquisition offer presented by the so-called "preferred bidder" (a pool of companies led by the Swedish trust “Summa Equity”) was rejected by the Italian Ministry of Economic Development, which has the latest word about the fates of the company.

The news appeared this morning on the local newspaper, and does not say a lot more than this, but rumors refer that the main reason may be related to the economical offer being lower than expected by the receiver.

As you may imagine, there is a lot of worry within the employees since the future of the company is not clear: even if the auction will be restarted, it is now more probable that the company may be split between different operational areas (aircraft design, engines and MRO) to be individually sold. Or worse...

Will keep you updated.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 06:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
I’m going to tell you some bad news about the company situation.

You may have noticed a strange delay in the closure of the company bid, despite the multiple announcements of the last year regarding the imminent closure of the procedure.

Today we know that the proposed acquisition offer presented by the so-called "preferred bidder" (a pool of companies led by the Swedish trust “Summa Equity”) was rejected by the Italian Ministry of Economic Development, which has the latest word about the fates of the company.

The news appeared this morning on the local newspaper, and does not say a lot more than this, but rumors refer that the main reason may be related to the economical offer being lower than expected by the receiver.

As you may imagine, there is a lot of worry within the employees since the future of the company is not clear: even if the auction will be restarted, it is now more probable that the company may be split between different operational areas (aircraft design, engines and MRO) to be individually sold. Or worse...

Will keep you updated.


Thanks for the update Daniele. Not good news, but I'm sure a solution will come to fruition.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 07:46 
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Daniele, in your opinion, is the lack of interest and the lack of serious bidders due in part to the convoluted labor laws and inefficient Italian bureaucracy?

Should some manufacturing and final assembly take place in the US?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 08:52 
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Well the group that was the final bid didn’t seem quite up to the task at hand. Perhaps this will result in things actually moving forward.

They are producing planes at present, right?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 09:32 
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They are producing planes at present, right?

Yes, but there are strong issues with the supply-chain. Because of the bankruptcy, most of the suppliers requires payment in advance, and this is a big problem with the cash flow. You can't ask a customer to fully pay a new plane more than a year in advance, and due to the situation banks don't provide loans without guarantees. :whiteflag:

I left my heart there (and wife, too! :D ) and really hope to see a happy ending.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 10:00 
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I left my heart there (and wife, too! :D ) and really hope to see a happy ending.
We all wish the best outcome to you and to the company. And that lots of new P180 Evos will be soon flying high and fast :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 17:16 
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If you want to fly your Avanti to somewhere you can feel like the Clampetts when taxiing up to the FBO and have already been to KAPF and KVNY try KETB. Always wanted to go in there and did today. Fun! And easy. But I think we were the only turbo prop there.

1193 NM in 2:54. It won’t be that fast going home. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 19:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you want to fly your Avanti to somewhere you can feel like the Clampetts when taxiing up to the FBO and have already been to KAPF and KVNY try KETB. Always wanted to go in there and did today. Fun! And easy. But I think we were the only turbo prop there.

1193 NM in 2:54. It won’t be that fast going home. :D


If you felt like a Clampett rolling up in your Avanti than they must’ve considered me Cousin Eddie when I rolled into TEB in my piston single. However rolling up wasn’t nearly as insulting as departing as they held me short of the runway while they let a dozen or more jets takeoff before me as I waited like a chump.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2021, 10:16 
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If you don't want to feel like Clampetts, fly to ranch country in the middle of OK. We were the only plane on the ramp ! (besides 3 BBJs, which apparently get service done there).

Took my sister in law + fam and my fam to OK for Thanksgiving with my MIL. Pretty hard to beat the cabin for hauling 9. The bathroom was used 5x on a 1.5 hour flight :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2021, 17:48 
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I could care less about being a Clampett...they could buy and sell most uppity people they met right? :D

Coming home today we had a dirty airplane and it cost seven knots compared to book. At 381 it was still fast enough. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2021, 18:21 
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Tony - ceramic coat your leading edges if you have not already. Gives u a few knots and makes the bugs come off easier.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2021, 19:14 
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Username Protected wrote:

Coming home today we had a dirty airplane and it cost seven knots compared to book. At 381 it was still fast enough. :thumbup:

Nice! What altitude?

Do you find the Avanti II faster than the I or do you think it’s mostly individual variation? I know the difference isn’t huge regardless.

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