09 May 2024, 01:09 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 13 Apr 2024, 11:09 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6392 Post Likes: +5569 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Yes, Jon is correct. Don't know much more than that, as I've not seen owner at home airport for a little while, just exchanged a few texts. Plane is part 91 and as I recall, was part 91 before he bough it, too.
Did stick my head in the door the other day and mechanic was lifting 2nd engine into position on nacelle, so it should be in rigging by now.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 13 Apr 2024, 16:39 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8464 Post Likes: +8470 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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I want an Avanti...
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_________________ Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120 Never enough!
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 26 Apr 2024, 15:19 |
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Joined: 01/12/10 Posts: 407 Post Likes: +784 Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
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Username Protected wrote: Bikes fit in Piaggio with wheels on. Will say the car on other end was a different story.
None of my bike fleet has quick releases anymore. Big cabin and aisle even allowed me to keep pedals on. Anthony I was looking back at old posts and saw this photo of yours... Attachment: E2F3BA50-92C0-481A-835D-5D4CF499A0C8.jpeg I believe you have an early serial number like mine so therefore the original configuration had the "cheese grater" overheads. I notice yours doesnt.... was that an aftermarket cover? I like it!
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 26 Apr 2024, 19:39 |
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Joined: 01/12/10 Posts: 407 Post Likes: +784 Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
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Username Protected wrote: I wonder why these cheese grater replacements could not be fabricated and simply signed off with a minor modification. They are only interior parts. As long as the trap doors for the O2 masks and slots for the lights were done correctly, I would think it could be made with a strip of sheet metal and some leather covering.
Anthony, are yours documented in a log entry somewhere? Be interesting to see how they logged it. That’s what I’m going to try to do Jon. We shall see.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 03 May 2024, 02:05 |
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Joined: 11/25/20 Posts: 32 Post Likes: +15
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As far as the Cheese Graters go, I think Anthony’s is the only early one I’ve ever seen without. I know that early completions were done by several different MRO’s, and the interiors are similar, but not really standard between airframes.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 03 May 2024, 09:21 |
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Joined: 11/25/20 Posts: 32 Post Likes: +15
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I stand corrected.... went back through some old photos and data I had from 1008,1010, 1011. These all had the upper fins. 1018 didn't, but it was retrofitted in 2007 via FAA 337 field approval. Most of the interior variations in the early ones are mostly galley style and placement, but the headliners/ PSU's appear fairly standard. I'm guessing Anthony's was modified after original delivery.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 07 May 2024, 00:25 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6392 Post Likes: +5569 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Spoke to my buddy today as he stopped by hangar and got a little more meat from his latest PT6 adventures. He told me that P&W wanted $1.4mill per engine for the zero timed -66B's!! Instead, he opted for the factory certified ones for $1.3mill - one's at 950hrs, the other is at the 3400hrs or so. Overhauls would have started at $650K/each if he'd gone that route, but since they're 2nd run and the hot section inspection guy had said it would probably be a bit more. Plus, overhaul waiting times are 6+ months and he didn't want to wait. It's also a -66 to -66B upgrade, which adds some hot an high performance and makes oil servicing easier (as it has a more accessible design). He said he was dead sick of engine and service people taking advantage of him, he felt. He had some hot section guy charge $10K just to inspect them, only to miss a massive inlet crack etc. And the guy who's putting the engines on has revised his price 3 times upwards. I totally get it. I know we can't find A&P's and I want them to earn a ton of money, but it's just death by a thousand cuts when it comes to certified aircraft. Everyone takes you to the cleaners. I love these things, but P&W pricing is totally out of control at this stage. $1.4mill per engine? We can't get competition soon enough. Hopefully someone will find a way to STC these with TPE331's or GE Catalysts in the future.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 07 May 2024, 11:15 |
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Joined: 08/02/09 Posts: 1350 Post Likes: +406 Company: Nantucket Rover Repair Location: Manchester, NH (MHT)
Aircraft: Cessna N337JJ
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Username Protected wrote: Spoke to my buddy today as he stopped by hangar and got a little more meat from his latest PT6 adventures. He told me that P&W wanted $1.4mill per engine for the zero timed -66B's!! Instead, he opted for the factory certified ones for $1.3mill - one's at 950hrs, the other is at the 3400hrs or so. Overhauls would have started at $650K/each if he'd gone that route, but since they're 2nd run and the hot section inspection guy had said it would probably be a bit more. Plus, overhaul waiting times are 6+ months and he didn't want to wait. It's also a -66 to -66B upgrade, which adds some hot an high performance and makes oil servicing easier (as it has a more accessible design). He said he was dead sick of engine and service people taking advantage of him, he felt. He had some hot section guy charge $10K just to inspect them, only to miss a massive inlet crack etc. And the guy who's putting the engines on has revised his price 3 times upwards. I totally get it. I know we can't find A&P's and I want them to earn a ton of money, but it's just death by a thousand cuts when it comes to certified aircraft. Everyone takes you to the cleaners. I love these things, but P&W pricing is totally out of control at this stage. $1.4mill per engine? We can't get competition soon enough. Hopefully someone will find a way to STC these with TPE331's or GE Catalysts in the future. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1m0VQ3LvMxhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... lhCrE3JQjuWhat model TPE331 would match a -66 Pratt? How much does one cost? Heavier/Lighter than the original engine? Efficiency? Looking at these charts a -10 has the the flat rated horsepower but itakes a -14 to have the same thermodynamic horsepower. How does that work?
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 07 May 2024, 13:50 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1329 Post Likes: +1312 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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IIRC this aircraft is Pt 91. Why was he even considering doing an overhaul? It's like walking into a car dealership with a 15 year old car and tossing them the keys. You are just asking for it at that point. An HSI only repairs/replaces broken things. An overhaul replaces everything no matter what. Stupid IMO.
Based on what Jon said the person chose to replace the engines instead of repairing them. Again, you are just asking for it at that point. Now if you can't afford the downtime then you have to pay. But for those of us that fly for fun, do the HSI (and be patient while it's happening), and keep flying.
Further, his engines have some value which would go against the replacement costs.
But the bottom line is that you are buying into an ecosystem. Make sure you have airframe and engine service options figured out before. Oh and do a little research about what's required before tossing the keys to a shop.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: Yesterday, 06:13 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6392 Post Likes: +5569 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote: What model TPE331 would match a -66 Pratt? How much does one cost? Heavier/Lighter than the original engine? Efficiency?
Looking at these charts a -10 has the the flat rated horsepower but itakes a -14 to have the same thermodynamic horsepower. How does that work?
The -14 is awesome for power, but not so much for overhaul etc as it's the "big block" Garrett and more costly. The one to go for is a the -12, most likely. That's the most powerful of the "small block" TPE's. One problem with the Garretts is that they're not reverse flow inlets, so a little harder to adapt to a pusher config. I'm sure it's doable, just need to figure out the exhaust/inlet/shaft thing. Not sure the cost new, I've heard Honeywell also take every OEM to the cleaners, but at least te overhauls are considerably cheaper than PT6. Looking forward to seeing more about the Catalyst.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: Yesterday, 06:15 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6392 Post Likes: +5569 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote: IIRC this aircraft is Pt 91. Why was he even considering doing an overhaul? He had to, forget the reason. He's not a dummy - had a Hondajet before, so it's not like he wandered into this like a child. He got a good deal on plane and took his chances on the engines being able to soldier on past TBO, but plan didn't work out.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: Yesterday, 07:20 |
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Joined: 10/05/11 Posts: 9596 Post Likes: +6469 Company: Power/mation Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
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Username Protected wrote: Looking forward to seeing more about the Catalyst. Me, too
_________________ Be Nice
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