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 Post subject: Re: Avant 1 and Garmin
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 13:37 
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Good morning all. We just acquired SN 1088, which had the twin GTN750 upgrade a few years back, but not the G600. We noticed the autopilot doesn’t do a very good job on NAV mode tracking a GPS based flight plan…correction for wind is quite poor.

First question…has anyone else experienced this in their GTN upgraded Avanti?

Second question, for those who also did the G600Txi, have you seen an improvement with the Autopilot tracking?

Third, has anyone heard any updates from Garmin about better integration with the Collins autopilot to make the integration better or the option to replace the autopilot with a Garmin digital AP since the Avanti is very similar engine and avionics wise to certain older KingAirs which have an STC for the Garmin G1000 upgrade.

Lastly, if you answered yes to the first question, were you able to improve the performance by adjusting the gain on the system so that the autopilot is more responsive to the output?

Thanks!


Sounds like it is not tracking GPSS from the GTN but standard analog nav.

Congrats on the new plane, where are you basing it?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 13:39 
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 Post subject: Re: Avant 1 and Garmin
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 13:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
Good morning all. We just acquired SN 1088, which had the twin GTN750 upgrade a few years back, but not the G600. We noticed the autopilot doesn’t do a very good job on NAV mode tracking a GPS based flight plan…correction for wind is quite poor.

First question…has anyone else experienced this in their GTN upgraded Avanti?

Second question, for those who also did the G600Txi, have you seen an improvement with the Autopilot tracking?

Third, has anyone heard any updates from Garmin about better integration with the Collins autopilot to make the integration better or the option to replace the autopilot with a Garmin digital AP since the Avanti is very similar engine and avionics wise to certain older KingAirs which have an STC for the Garmin G1000 upgrade.

Lastly, if you answered yes to the first question, were you able to improve the performance by adjusting the gain on the system so that the autopilot is more responsive to the output?

Thanks!


Sounds like it is not tracking GPSS from the GTN but standard analog nav.

Congrats on the new plane, where are you basing it?


Is there a setting on the GTN or the Collins avionics that I can make that changes to GPSS from analog?

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 15:26 
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Paging Anthony - he's very clued in to the Garmin and A/P integration.

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 Post subject: Re: Avant 1 and Garmin
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 15:41 
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Username Protected wrote:

Sounds like it is not tracking GPSS from the GTN but standard analog nav.

Congrats on the new plane, where are you basing it?


Is there a setting on the GTN or the Collins avionics that I can make that changes to GPSS from analog?


No, it is hardware and wiring

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 20:42 
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Joined: 09/26/09
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Just back from FlightSafety for recurrent training. It was a very good experience. They accommodated my lack of PL21/FMS experience and concentrated on flying. I did learn some PL21. I’m still a Garmin fan - but can see the power in the FMS that has been covered here before.

I built confidence in handling low altitude engine loss. A takeoff engine loss feels much more likely to have a positive outcome in the Avanti compared to 58P and MU-2. Also did some eye opening upset, mountain and windshear situations.

My training partners were all Italian, two flying Piaggios in the Italian Air Force. It was humbling to be around these pros.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 18:30 
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I can't imagine that someone put in GTN750's and did not install the stuff to do GPSS.
In GPSS mode the autopilot will be in heading mode, NOT nav mode....
Rather that give the AP right or left of course info it will give the autopilot a heading to fly that adjusts for wind, automatically flying multisegment GPS approaches with heading changes, coupled holds and all sorts of magic.

There will be some kind of switch or mode that changes if the AP is following the
HSI heading bug or following the GPSS signal.

The mode stuff between a GPS and old autopilots can be weird...

Figuring out exactly how this works in your particular airplane , and how to switch modes between GPSS and ILS or GPS approach etc... needs to be well understood.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 22:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
I can't imagine that someone put in GTN750's and did not install the stuff to do GPSS.
In GPSS mode the autopilot will be in heading mode, NOT nav mode....
Rather that give the AP right or left of course info it will give the autopilot a heading to fly that adjusts for wind, automatically flying multisegment GPS approaches with heading changes, coupled holds and all sorts of magic.

There will be some kind of switch or mode that changes if the AP is following the
HSI heading bug or following the GPSS signal.

The mode stuff between a GPS and old autopilots can be weird...

Figuring out exactly how this works in your particular airplane , and how to switch modes between GPSS and ILS or GPS approach etc... needs to be well understood.


With the Collins autopilot it shouldn't be in HDG mode, but using the roll steering input which will be active in NAV mode.

There are big downsides to using HDG for GPSS in fast aircraft, mainly due to this class of autopilot doing airspeed gain programming on the heading input.

But that is provided they engineered it correctly....


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2022, 15:29 
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Have another question for the group. I can barely hear the stall warning, autopilot disconnect or the electric trim sounds through the headset or speaker. Any idea how to increase the volume on those alert sounds?

By the way, I can’t explain why but we learned the tracking error was because we had an ILS freq in the NAV. When the ILS freq is swapped out for a VOR, it tracks perfectly. Makes no sense to me but that’s what we were told and it works perfectly. Strange installation of the GTN but it seems to work perfectly.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 10:55 
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I don’t know of a volume on those alerts however in one older set of Bose I have they are quiet. Newer ones they are fine.

On that note, I recently bought the Bose in ear headset. I think it works well for the Avanti - especially on long flights. A20 a smidge quieter but overall I like the in ear more.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 11:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don’t know of a volume on those alerts however in one older set of Bose I have they are quiet. Newer ones they are fine.

On that note, I recently bought the Bose in ear headset. I think it works well for the Avanti - especially on long flights. A20 a smidge quieter but overall I like the in ear more.


Anthony have you tried Clarity Aloft? I’m curious about the differences.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 11:52 
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On a standard Audio System (e.g. an aircraft with original Baker Audio panels, etc.) the aurals are generated by the Aural Warning Tone Generator (excluding TCAS and/or TAWS).

AWTG is a reliable unit, without external adjustments. If the problem is confirmed, it seems to be a suspect here.

However it could be useful to verify if the problem appears on both sides of the audio lines (Pilot/Copilot). A standard test on ground with the Rotary Test knob should suffice to compare all the aurals and to exclude any issue of the audio panels (someone messed up with the adjustment pots?).

The wires between the AWTG and Audio panles are also a potential guilty.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 17:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don’t know of a volume on those alerts however in one older set of Bose I have they are quiet. Newer ones they are fine.

On that note, I recently bought the Bose in ear headset. I think it works well for the Avanti - especially on long flights. A20 a smidge quieter but overall I like the in ear more.


Anthony have you tried Clarity Aloft? I’m curious about the differences.


I found the Bose much quieter than clarity. Clarity was more comfy on my head. Audio in Bose much better - that’s probably my favorite part. Low volume Jazz sounds excellent on it.

A nice Bose feature is you can pop one ear out to talk to pax in back and not have to remove completely.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2022, 23:50 
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I am currently evaluating the Avanti II or EVO, for a client, comparing with the B350i essentially. I would be interested to know if the Avanti has been STC'd for Collins Fusion Avionics as an upgrade for the proline 21. I am aware some have been upgraded to Garmin.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2022, 01:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am currently evaluating the Avanti II or EVO, for a client, comparing with the B350i essentially. I would be interested to know if the Avanti has been STC'd for Collins Fusion Avionics as an upgrade for the proline 21. I am aware some have been upgraded to Garmin.

Avanti I can be upgraded to Garmin. Avanti II (i.e. PL21) cannot. There is no Fusion upgrade to my knowledge.

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