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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2021, 14:23 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Good hearing you on freq Matt!

I used to visit this hangar as a kid. Fun to get to park in it this week.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2021, 15:46 
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I always love that hanger every time I'm there. One of those buildings you hope they always repair and keep that retro feel instead of tearing down someday.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2021, 08:43 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1697
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Centerline means centerline. I would not say I have struggled but definitely have not been satisfied with my maintaining centerline on landings. 4-5 foot drift is not acceptable to me.
Having never flown twin turbine and never used reverse I mistakenly thought somewhat normal and problem was me

Yesterday I picked up from Covington after borescope and fuel nozzle checks. Also had them balance the throttles.

Hi speed taxi/ aborted takeoff before departure then landing back in Charlotte.

Centerline IS CENTERLINE!

No extra time/effort trying to get right throttle a hair higher than left on take off or left throttle a hair further aft on reverse.

After about 100 hours I am pleasantly surprised how much less stress and easier to manage this Avanti is vs Aerostar.

Plus I seem to be getting more direct routings.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2021, 18:40 
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Joined: 01/11/11
Posts: 1094
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Company: FUSION
Aircraft: B300ER B200 C90 DHC6
AEROVANTI
https://www.businessinsider.com/aerovanti-launches-with-piaggio-p180-avanti-and-1995-hourly-rate-2021-6?r=US&IR=T

https://www.aerovanti.com/


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2021, 18:59 
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Joined: 09/26/09
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Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
100 hours already. You aren’t messing around.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2021, 20:17 
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The Aerovanti concept makes sense. By all accounts, Avantaire was problems more with the operating company than the plane. The Piaggio cabin is better than most small jets and it burns half the fuel. I wonder if they are flying them single pilot?

More Avanti's flyng is a good thing!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2021, 21:49 
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Fleet of 5 expanding to 12 and looking to source the new EVO. That would be excellent news for Piaggio and should get them in a more healthy business state.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2021, 07:58 
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2k per hour also makes a lot of sense from an operating standpoint. I think there are a lot of people who could justify that vs 4K hours on wheels up. Further, for longer trips, the faster plane vs ka350 helps minimize costs. It’s stunning when I compare my flight plans in FF to the Phenom 300 profiles. Not that different time wise on a lot less fuel. Compare to KA350 and it’s significantly faster, especially on headwind legs.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2021, 23:06 
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Location: Birmingham
Aircraft: Vans RV-6; Archer II
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2k per hour also makes a lot of sense from an operating standpoint. I think there are a lot of people who could justify that vs 4K hours on wheels up. Further, for longer trips, the faster plane vs ka350 helps minimize costs. It’s stunning when I compare my flight plans in FF to the Phenom 300 profiles. Not that different time wise on a lot less fuel. Compare to KA350 and it’s significantly faster, especially on headwind legs.


Factoring the cost of capital (and especially factoring in the removal of general overhead hassle/time/effort associated with ownership of a plane of that class), the break even hours versus owning would be interesting to calculate - especially when you add another hour of productivity on each end of the trip. I'm certainly interested as I think our utilization would slant heavily towards the charter/fractional at that rate. As soon as you get to 3-4 pax, it's basically the same price first class commercial on several of the legs we regularly fly. I just hope they'll develop an option to let you sit right or even left seat with sufficient training like the Honda program does.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2021, 17:30 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8415
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
We are decorating a new house in California and headed out Friday. I just finished loading our bags and two SUV's full of stuff. And we still have two club chairs, side facing jump seat and couch for passengers as well as half the closet and the potty. This thing holds an amazing amount of stuff and people.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2021, 17:46 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
My full fuel payload is just over 1600 pounds.
Taking 4 passengers and 2,000lbs fuel to upstate NY tomorrow.
“Do we need to pack light?”

Me, for first time ever: NO

btw: A/C is simple to charge. Yesterday mechanic and I topped system off in 30 minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2021, 18:00 
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Joined: 09/26/09
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Company: ElitAire
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Aircraft: Piaggio P180
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My full fuel payload is just over 1600 pounds.


Holy cow - how does one find a PL21 bird that has an empty weight of 7750? We are 7970 with Garmin, which I thought would be a fair amount less than a PL21 plane.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2021, 18:13 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Empty weight on mine= 8148

Max ramp weight 12,150
2800lbs fuel

Me sqwued up calculation sum tyme ago and remembered rong number.

Fuel fuel payload 1200 lbs…I.E…5-6 healthy adults plus bags

Still more than I’ll ever likely need.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2021, 06:14 
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Joined: 09/26/09
Posts: 1407
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Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
Question for PT-6 operators regarding the ice doors/inertial separators. In the Mits training was whenever in visible moisture below 10C inlet heat required. The ice doors on the P180 are a huge performance suck. What are your operational norms. For example at FL350, -45c in the clouds standard thinking is too cold for ice? Are you using ice doors?

Or when -10c. Doors in use always in clouds or are you waiting for signs of ice?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2021, 06:19 
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Joined: 09/26/09
Posts: 1407
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Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
Username Protected wrote:
Empty weight on mine= 8148

Max ramp weight 12,150
2800lbs fuel

Me sqwued up calculation sum tyme ago and remembered rong number.

Fuel fuel payload 1200 lbs…I.E…5-6 healthy adults plus bags

Still more than I’ll ever likely need.


You have that right Brad. All sorts of utility.

I remember Anthony saying balance can be tricky and have found that true. Full fuel and no passengers moves aft of limit. Light fuel and closer to max zero fuel load moves forward of limit. Anthony suggested wake board weights which have been great to easily keep things in balance.


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