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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 May 2020, 09:32 
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It’s a different controller. Supposedly smoother and less touchy.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 May 2020, 17:18 
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Talked with Piaggio America today to get on list for Parker brakes. Currently (when available) list is 40 week lead time! 65,000 for two wheel, two brakes.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 May 2020, 17:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Talked with Piaggio America today to get on list for Parker brakes. Currently (when available) list is 40 week lead time! 65,000 for two wheel, two brakes.


You could hope that figure is in Lira! Oops, I guess I am dating myself here...

Best,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 May 2020, 19:52 
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Trust me it’s in dollars, uninstallled.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 May 2020, 00:11 
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Thanks for all the info! Those numbers (including the 40-week wait for the steel brakes) are eye-watering to be honest... but the plane is uber cool. Half a million to do the gear work, brakes and new panel ... and that’s before paint and interior. Yikes!!

We have a Piaggio service center in Houston at my home field (Sims at KTME) so I see them coming and going pretty often ...


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 May 2020, 09:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for all the info! Those numbers (including the 40-week wait for the steel brakes) are eye-watering to be honest... but the plane is uber cool. Half a million to do the gear work, brakes and new panel ... and that’s before paint and interior. Yikes!!

We have a Piaggio service center in Houston at my home field (Sims at KTME) so I see them coming and going pretty often ...



Simms is one of the best in the business.

The gear overhaul is only every 12 - 15 years and then only if you charter the airplane. Part 91 its not required nor would I do it. The panel is 200K, the brakes (the airplanes only truly weak spot) are 65K and the paint and interior can be both done for 180K. Assuming you find a donor airplane with decent time on the engines for 800k (very possible) you are looking at 1.25 - 1.4 for an airplane that no light jet can touch in its combination of speed, range and cabin comfort (and noise level even). You would have to spend 3 times as much money to get even close. (more like 5 times to get a Phenom 300 - and you still would have a smaller cabin).

Check out this article from Flying a few years ago: https://www.flyingmag.com/pilot-reports ... uel-miser/


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 May 2020, 19:16 
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Thanks much - very helpful. Given all that (including updating the interior), what’s the advantage of an Avanti II vs. a fixed up Avanti I? Just the PL21? If you’re ever down in Houston shoot me a note - would love to see your plane!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 23 May 2020, 22:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks much - very helpful. Given all that (including updating the interior), what’s the advantage of an Avanti II vs. a fixed up Avanti I? Just the PL21? If you’re ever down in Houston shoot me a note - would love to see your plane!


I think the panel is a bit more refined in the II. The engine instruments are all integrated with the MFD in the PL21, and the panel is definitely more logically laid out. The engines are a bit more powerful, flat rated to 25K instead of 20K which of course produces just a bit more speed. The earliest I models (of which I was involved with) held 2650 lbs of fuel and the later I's and II's hold 2800 lbs of fuel. I also think the interior is a bit more modern with the loss of the cheese grater grills in the ceiling. Thats about it.

If you are able to buy a II for the price of a I though, with the incipient 16 year modernization thrown in, its a no brainer.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 May 2020, 01:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks much - very helpful. Given all that (including updating the interior), what’s the advantage of an Avanti II vs. a fixed up Avanti I? Just the PL21? If you’re ever down in Houston shoot me a note - would love to see your plane!


I think the panel is a bit more refined in the II. The engine instruments are all integrated with the MFD in the PL21, and the panel is definitely more logically laid out. The engines are a bit more powerful, flat rated to 25K instead of 20K which of course produces just a bit more speed. The earliest I models (of which I was involved with) held 2650 lbs of fuel and the later I's and II's hold 2800 lbs of fuel. I also think the interior is a bit more modern with the loss of the cheese grater grills in the ceiling. Thats about it.

If you are able to buy a II for the price of a I though, with the incipient 16 year modernization thrown in, its a no brainer.


Exactly, the upgraded 66B engines have a little better thermal rating. It's the plane that can hit 402kts in ideal conditions, whereas the Avanti I is prob a 10-20kts slower.
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Last edited on 24 May 2020, 22:32, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 24 May 2020, 09:56 
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Thanks guys - this is all very helpful and consistent with what I've read on the Avanti; the integration of the PL21, the 66B engine (forgot about that in my above post) and interior are the big differences. Didn't know about the fuel capacity differences... and it sounds like you got a good deal on your II, Mark! I wonder if you can get the syn-vis upgrade on the PL21 in the Avanti ... I've seen that on some other planes and it looks nice.

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2020, 11:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks guys - this is all very helpful and consistent with what I've read on the Avanti; the integration of the PL21, the 66B engine (forgot about that in my above post) and interior are the big differences. Didn't know about the fuel capacity differences... and it sounds like you got a good deal on your II, Mark! I wonder if you can get the syn-vis upgrade on the PL21 in the Avanti ... I've seen that on some other planes and it looks nice.

Cheers!


Checked on the syn-vis (which of course is FUSION) and its not available nor contemplated to be available for the Avanti II. Not enough airplanes I guess to fool with the AML requirements.

School got moved to the 15 - 25 for me so picking up the bird end of the month. Currently the freshly overhauled gear is being installed on the airplane. Freshly overhauled props as well. Should be ready to pick up end of the month..


Attachment:
E35ABE81-0B4B-4DCF-804D-AB5D11F30D05.jpeg







Seems to be quite a bit of interest in the market now for Avanti's. 4 have sold over the last 6 months which is a lot considering the fleet is only around 200 total. Now that 19 "expressions of interest" have been recorded by the receiver for Piaggio Aerospace maybe a financially strong parent company will come into the picture by the end of the year further assisting the airplanes marketability. I guess we shall see on that front....


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2020, 11:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Seems to be quite a bit of interest in the market now for Avanti's. 4 have sold over the last 6 months which is a lot considering the fleet is only around 200 total. Now that 19 "expressions of interest" have been recorded by the receiver for Piaggio Aerospace maybe a financially strong parent company will come into the picture by the end of the year further assisting the airplanes marketability. I guess we shall see on that front....


There are only about 15 on the market which is under 10% of the fleet.

One of the issues with a tiny market like this is prices are all over the place and its hard to rationalize pricing. Which means increased market risk for the buyer.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2020, 12:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Seems to be quite a bit of interest in the market now for Avanti's. 4 have sold over the last 6 months which is a lot considering the fleet is only around 200 total. Now that 19 "expressions of interest" have been recorded by the receiver for Piaggio Aerospace maybe a financially strong parent company will come into the picture by the end of the year further assisting the airplanes marketability. I guess we shall see on that front....


There are only about 15 on the market which is under 10% of the fleet.

One of the issues with a tiny market like this is prices are all over the place and its hard to rationalize pricing. Which means increased market risk for the buyer.


Actually 11. The Avanti I models go sub 1MM realistically and the II models for for 1.8 - 2.0. I got a particularly good deal. One of the great bargains of the I models is that you can buy one for well under a million, put in a full glass panel, new interior and paint for under 1.3 total investment. And I dare anyone to find a more capable beautiful bird for that price.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2020, 13:03 
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Username Protected wrote:

Actually 11.


That's how many are on Controller. I have 4 others on my list. One off market. The others listed elsewhere and currently for sale.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2020, 13:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
Seems to be quite a bit of interest in the market now for Avanti's.


It's that Adam guy causing it ! :lol:

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