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 Post subject: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 13:29 
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Joined: 09/13/12
Posts: 367
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Aircraft: Piper Mirage
Just curious if a MU-2 can land at KGDY, Grundy, VA?

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KGDY

If the answer is yes, does it have to be a certain type of MU-2? (Engine type, long body, short body, etc) Paging Mike C. for a little education.

Thanks,

Jimmy Elza


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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 13:38 
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Joined: 03/23/08
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Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
No problem. Can even take off again...
Short Bodies kick ass on short strips.
Long body is just heavier so one might want to limit weight on the departure.

But landing / stopping is easy. Nail it and turn off midfield on landing.

:)

PS: Engines won't make any difference. -6 and -10 should both make full torque there.
Not many -1 planes left but they are even lighter so still: good to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 15:04 
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Joined: 08/21/14
Posts: 287
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Location: KPDK
Aircraft: C421B MU2-40 Solitai
Unless I can't read the performance chart correctly, my Solitaire cannot takeoff at KGDY. ISA, 9000lbs, 10kt headwind, will require around 2700ft min.

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Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 15:08 
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Joined: 12/22/07
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Company: Midwest Chemtrails, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
A short-body MU-2 used to regularly visit I66, and it routinely made the 1,500' turn-off. Dunno how hard it was working to achieve that ...

I only vaguely recall the take-offs - perhaps 1,600 to 1,800 feet.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 15:38 
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Joined: 07/21/08
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Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
we have had a Solitaire on our 2,300' grass strip. Pilot only with light fuel load. He used approx. half the runway on both take off and landing.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 15:39 
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Joined: 08/21/14
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Location: KPDK
Aircraft: C421B MU2-40 Solitai
I just re-checked the chart. My numbers were with a 50' obstacle. So, you should be able to get off the ground very close to the 2200'. Even though, since it's not in the performance charts, you're a test pilot.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 19:16 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
My home base for my Solitaire is KSQL, 2600' at sea level. I have never had an issue landing, as long as you are OK with speed control (as with any airplane!) the use of a little prop beta and maybe reverse gets you stopped quickly.

Takeoff at max gross on a hot day is something to consider carefully. Headwind helps somewhat.

I would say you could use the 2200' runway with due care, staying light and not on real hot days. Also after a reasonable amount of practice!

I've attached the takeoff performance chart for the Solitaire. Note that the only published numbers are over a 50' obstacle.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 21:36 
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Joined: 02/09/11
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Company: Aero Teknic Inc.
Location: CYHU / Montreal St-Hubert
Aircraft: MU-2B-60, SR22,C182Q
40 degree flap take-off.

Never done in the Mits as you cannot survive an engine out at Flaps 40 on take-off.

-Pascal

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 22:00 
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Joined: 09/13/12
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Aircraft: Piper Mirage
Thanks for the thoughtful responses guys. I have a friend who lives near this airport. He is looking to buy a twin. There are airports further away with much better landing options. I live 5 minutes from my home airport. I don't think aviation would be near as much fun if I had to drive an hour just to get to the airplane. Do you guys know any other planes in this class that could land at Grundy? Thanks again for the responses and charts you guys have shared.

Jimmy Elza


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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 22:09 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Just curious if a MU-2 can land at KGDY, Grundy, VA?

The MU2 can land in very short distances. Flaps 40 approach over the fence at 90 knots, touch down at 80 knots, immediate full reverse, brakes, will yield well under 1000 ft, maybe 700 ft. Landing is never the problem in an MU2, you can always land shorter than you can takeoff.

On takeoff, you can get the plane into the air very quickly. A high percentage, about 45%, of the MU2 wing is behind the prop so while the plane might be going 80 knots, the part of the wing behind the prop is going 150 knots or so. So you have a "blown flap" situation generating lift. What this means is a dead engine is also a great loss of lift.

The absolute shortest takeoff is a procedure that is against the teachings of the SFAR. It goes like this for my airplane:

Use reverse to back up at the very start of the runway.
Set flaps 20.
Holding brakes, run engines up to 110%, if the brakes can't hold, quickly go to 110% as soon as you start to move.
As you accelerate, back off engine power to maintain 110%.
At 70 knots, select flaps 40, reduce engine power to 100%.
Rotate at 80 knots.
If obstacles are no issue, fly in ground effect to build speed while sucking up gear.
At 110 knots, flaps 20.
Establish climb, accelerate to 150, flaps 5, climb out.

This can get you off the ground in about 1300 ft give or take.

If an engine quits, you will be in very bad shape. Best hope is chop both and land straight ahead on whatever. Best not to get too high until speed builds as you will lose LOTS of lift if an engine quits. Successfully flying out of an engine failure while flaps 40 or under 120 KIAS is unlikely. That is the risk you take. This period of risk lasts for maybe 30 seconds from when you could stop on the runway to when you can fly away on one engine.

There are stories, from sources I trust, of MU2s operating out of par 5 holes at golf courses (~1700 ft, usually with trees).

Weight is the biggest factor in runway usage. Being lighter makes everything work better. Thus the early short bodies are the best for short field work. If you are light enough, say 8,000 pounds, you MAY be able to fly away on one engine after you break ground.

The performance charts in the AFM have been pessimized. They do not reflect reality. A substantial safety factor was built into them, plus they use a very flat initial profile (2/3rds the energy goes into accelerating versus climb after liftoff, so the 50 ft distances are distorted by that). No modern charts give you ground roll.

The old manuals have decidedly more aggressive numbers. The sales literature originally said (for my M model):

Landing distance over 50 ft obstacle: 1,600 ft
Landing ground roll: 960 ft
(flaps 40, 1.2 Vso, 8,338 lbs)

Take off distance over 50 ft obstacle: 1,800 ft
Take off ground roll: 1,476 ft
(rotate and climb out at 93 KIAS, 10,470 lbs)

93 KIAS is Vmc in the takeoff configuration.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 22:29 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20284
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc1Dl_FG-ZU
Long body carrying supplies for Haiti earthquake relief, plus fuel for return journey, landing distance about 1600 ft from touchdown, about 1900 ft from runway end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGRBzbmwJxQ
The departure, ground roll about 1000 ft, must have been very light, horsing it off early.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 00:59 
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Joined: 04/19/09
Posts: 382
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Location: Montego Bay, Jamaica W.I. (MKJS)
Aircraft: Baron B55/Cessna 140
Mike,

Where did you find that? :D. Only once in 22 years had we ever needed to use it. But I'm almost sure we traded posts about it.

Regards,

Nigel


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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 07:58 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Where did you find that?

Define "that". Not sure what you are referring to.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 08:43 
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Joined: 04/19/09
Posts: 382
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Location: Montego Bay, Jamaica W.I. (MKJS)
Aircraft: Baron B55/Cessna 140
Mike,

Was referring to the 40 Flap take off, sometime back on the CPA forum, I believe I mentioned it and while it is against the SFAR policy. It can be used to get the aircraft off in a very short distance if needed.


Nigel


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 Post subject: Re: Can a MU-2 land at this airport?
PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 10:02 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Was referring to the 40 Flap take off, sometime back on the CPA forum, I believe I mentioned it and while it is against the SFAR policy. It can be used to get the aircraft off in a very short distance if needed.

Yes, indeed.

I've never done one for real in the aircraft. If I end up in a situation where I have a choice between a certain crash at the end of the runway or using flaps 40 to levitate up in the air, I will chose flaps 40 and take the very small risk an engine quits on me in the next 30 seconds.

Mike C.

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