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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 14:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
I really think the best for your mission would be a Commander. A 500B Shrike is the ultimate cabin class/bush plane combo there is. They have higher prop clearances, bigger wheels and shorter takeoffs than most of the competition. Real load haulers, too. Well supported with "normal" engines like the O-470 and IO-540.

Image
Image

I had an old 520 for a few years. That thing took off like a homesick angel on crack. And although the 500B doesn't have as short a T/O, they're not far behind. You could easily be based at a sub 2000ft strip and takeoff fully loaded. No problem.


There simply aren't many twins that can compete with 500-series Commanders when it comes to bush capabilities in conjunction with cabin class. The TwinBo is probably the closest. Great prop clearance and big wheels on that too, but you're still dealing with geared engines that cost 2x as much to overhaul and have ridiculous 250hr prop AD's unless they've been modified costly.

which ones are pressurized?

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 14:27 
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Unfortunately, the 500 models never got pressurized. There was talk of doing it, but it never happened.

The 680 models did in the form of 680FP and FLP models. I would not recommend either for your mission. They are heavy, have expensive IGSO engines and a complex hydraulically driven pressurization system that's not well supported anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 14:37 
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thanks Adam. If I am not getting pressurization I would most likely stay with the T-bone. The 55/58 Barons just do not have the room or payload to fill our requirements.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 14:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
I really think the best for your mission would be a Commander. A 500B Shrike is the ultimate cabin class/bush plane combo there is. They have higher prop clearances, bigger wheels and shorter takeoffs than most of the competition. Real load haulers, too. Well supported with "normal" engines like the O-470 and IO-540.

Image
Image

I had an old 520 for a few years. That thing took off like a homesick angel on crack. And although the 500B doesn't have as short a T/O, they're not far behind. You could easily be based at a sub 2000ft strip and takeoff fully loaded. No problem.

Here I am taking off from Johnson Creek, ID at 5000ft elev. I estimate the T/O run to be about 1700ft. I had half load.

Image


Here I'm taking off in about 600ft at my home base El Monte, lightly loaded, with 2/3'rd flaps:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/0zEhHJkUERE[/youtube]


Here I'm landing on a dirt road in the Mojave desert:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/DYyvamJT334[/youtube]


Here I am taking off from Johnson Creek again at 5000ft elevation:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/7lt8kohU9lU[/youtube]

There simply aren't many twins that can compete with 500-series Commanders when it comes to bush capabilities in conjunction with cabin class. The TwinBo is probably the closest. Great prop clearance and big wheels on that too, but you're still dealing with geared engines that cost 2x as much to overhaul and have ridiculous 250hr prop AD's unless they've been modified costly.



Boing!

:thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 14:39 
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If the 55 is too small, then most any non-geared twin won't be ideal. I have a 58 and it is not that great of a short field aircraft even though I base mine on 2900 feet of grass.

I think the Commanders and T-Bones are the only choice unless you don't mind burning Jet A, in which case a C-90 with anything other than a -20 engine would be great.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 15:01 
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Quote:
If I am not getting pressurization I would most likely stay with the T-bone.


:thumbup:

First time I pulled up beside a T-Bone in my Commander, I walked over with the swagger of someone confident in the fact that I had more "bush capability", i.e. better prop clearance and bigger wheels. I was very surprised to find out that even though the Bone is a low wing, it has similar prop clearance to the Commander, due to it sitting so high. It also has similarly huge MLG tires. I can see it being an ideal airplane for farm strips.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 15:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
thanks Adam. If I am not getting pressurization I would most likely stay with the T-bone. The 55/58 Barons just do not have the room or payload to fill our requirements.


Well judging by your avatar pic I'd say you probably have the room for a T Bone. Enjoy!

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 15:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
... The TwinBo is probably the closest. Great prop clearance and big wheels on that too, but you're still dealing with geared engines that cost 2x as much to overhaul and have ridiculous 250hr prop AD's unless they've been modified costly.

Great report on the Commander. Fantastic airplane.

I want to point out, however, that geared GO-480s are probably $40k to overhaul all-in, and that is probably on the high side. Supercharged GSOs probably $50k. Gregg would know better figures, but these are close.

The 250hr props are not common anymore, as Hartzell doesn't support them. Most Bones nowadays have the 500hr Hartzell props which ARE supported or the no-AD McCauleys.

There is no reason to take Twin Bonanzas out of consideration for overhaul and prop concerns, in my (biased) opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 15:48 
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Joined: 03/17/14
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Location: Aspen Boulder, CO (ASE)
Aircraft: 1988 Bonanza B36TC
If you have your B36TC for sale, I know someone who is actively in the market for one, depending on price of course.
send me a P M please if interested.
And I am NOT a broker by the way.

If you need a ferry or delivery flight for it, I would also be avialable, have owned one for 15 years. And I know how to find the big city of Decatu.r


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 18:15 
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Joined: 07/21/08
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Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
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Username Protected wrote:
If you have your B36TC for sale, I know someone who is actively in the market for one, depending on price of course.
send me a P M please if interested.
And I am NOT a broker by the way.

If you need a ferry or delivery flight for it, I would also be avialable, have owned one for 15 years. And I know how to find the big city of Decatu.r

Thanks Bill, but my plane is already under contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 18:56 
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<7500>

(3) Air Cams

</7500>

:)

:duck:

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 18:57 
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Joined: 08/02/09
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Company: Nantucket Rover Repair
Location: Manchester, NH (MHT)
Aircraft: Cessna N337JJ
Searching around for STOL twins I came across a DHC-7. I know not a realistic personal airplane but it says it can take off in less than 2000 feet with 40 passengers, enough fuel to go 700 miles and meeting engine out requirements. Has anyone here ever flown one?


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 19:08 
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Joined: 03/31/14
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Location: Anacortes, WA
Aircraft: J35
The Dash 7, as they were called when I was working on them (maintenance) in Canada, has 4 P&W PT6s and is essentially a regional airliner.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 19:18 
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Location: Aspen Boulder, CO (ASE)
Aircraft: 1988 Bonanza B36TC
I have never flown a Dash 7 but I see the jump plane at Longmont often, it is a DH Twin Otter, the Dash 6. It is great for short field, it takes off in perhaps 1/4 of the runway and that is at 6000 ft elevation, with a load of jumpers and lands short too, shorter and slower than most gen av singles.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a twin for a short grass strip
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 19:48 
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Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
I'll buy the plane. Y'all buy the fuel

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