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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2015, 23:02 
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Mark,

You see my signature don't you? :D

Alas, it's true. :sad:

Jgreen

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2015, 00:00 
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I agree but from some reason ugly planes work really well. Why is that?


That's actually not true. The PC-12 is the exception not the norm. And quite frankly I don't consider the PC-12 all that bad looking. And I see them every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2015, 00:43 
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I think the diamond twin stars are the ugliest planes around. They look like modern day pterodactyls.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2015, 03:17 
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The credibility issue or the Thielert engine issue has been pretty well documented elsewhere and a quick Google search would uncover the situation.
I'm a big fan of their products as a happy former DA-40 180 owner but I certainly understand the angry DA-42 buyers.
This is an intro to the problem
http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/going-direct/twinstar-woes-boil-over


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2015, 09:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I agree but from some reason ugly planes work really well. Why is that?


That's actually not true. The PC-12 is the exception not the norm. And quite frankly I don't consider the PC-12 all that bad looking. And I see them every day.


PC12 is a great looking bird. I think with the right paint scheme the da62 is a damn sexy airplane too.

If it flies good on one, they have a winner.
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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2015, 17:11 
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Looked at the DA62 up close at NBAA. The cowlings are just goofy... but fit the function I guess. Looks like they have electric fans to blow over the intercooler? Probably to assure full TO power at zero indicated?

Funny looking airplanes may perform well but as the old saying goes "mediocrity pays" and the outliers don't tend to be commercially successful (Pushers, Continental Sandwiches etc). But the DA62 seemed otherwise conventional. I liked the 3 door setup. Nosewheel passed my visual test for strength, seemed pretty beefy. They had a set of golf clubs stuffed in the nose baggage area so it will probably sell well.

Good looking plane generally. But was hard to judge the relative length of the wing in that big hall. How'd they get it there lol?

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2015, 18:05 
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I also saw this at NBAA yesterday and sat in all 3 rows of seats. It is very spacious and if it burns the low fuel they claim (about 11 gallons/hour), I don't see how it won't sell pretty well. It is not certified yet but they expect it soon. Good article about it in this month's Flying magazine.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2015, 22:29 
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Flying magazine had a raving review/write up about them.

We'll see how they do in the marketplace. That's where it counts. How many can you sell? Show me the numbers!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2015, 22:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
Flying magazine had a raving review/write up about them.

We'll see how they do in the marketplace. That's where it counts. How many can you sell? Show me the numbers!!!!


You are correct. But before you get dismal, look at Cirrus sales. Seems like the market is trying to find the right product for the buyers right now. As you are pointing out, it comes down to numbers. Buyers need to write out the check and not simply look.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2015, 23:58 
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Username Protected wrote:
Flying magazine had a raving review/write up about them.

I dare you to name a new airplane that did not garner a Flying magazine raving review


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 01:28 
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I dare you to name a new airplane that did not garner a Flying magazine raving review

They are very good at hindsight, too:

http://www.flyingmag.com/what-went-wrong-eclipse

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 01:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Flying magazine had a raving review/write up about them.

I dare you to name a new airplane that did not garner a Flying magazine raving review

Best to look for a manufacturer which doesn't advertise to answer that. This publication has zero editorial credibility. Any business or manufacturer who potentially might might buy an ad page gets a positive, completely one sided and uncritical write up. They might as well distribute a package of manufacturers' brochures every month.

To be fair, it must be difficult to fill that magazine with anything new or newsworthy, given the snails pace of progress in the industry. They need to make a living...

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 11:32 
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11 gpm is extra long rang cruise, to get any speed your burning +20 gph total.


Username Protected wrote:
I also saw this at NBAA yesterday and sat in all 3 rows of seats. It is very spacious and if it burns the low fuel they claim (about 11 gallons/hour), I don't see how it won't sell pretty well. It is not certified yet but they expect it soon. Good article about it in this month's Flying magazine.

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 23:25 
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Price has to be over $1MM.

I can fly circles around this thing and have over $900k in the bank. If it had a chute I might have some interest.


Can't compare new to used. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond DA62 is the Baron killer
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 23:41 
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Hello guys and gals,

I will add to what Casey and Jason have said about "Ugly aircraft"



Username Protected wrote:
I agree but from some reason ugly planes work really well. Why is that?


Because most of them were designed for function, not aesthetics.

Case in point:
E-2 Hawkeye. Ugly as %#$@. Holds several FAI records in it's class.
Fastest Turboprop over 100km course
Pretty much every time to climb record for Turboprop
Highest altitude, both absolute and horizontal flight.

And it's really good on gas.
And can land on a boat. Considering it holds the conventional landplane records in that category, with all the extra weight it lugs around for folding wings, tailhook, catapult towlink, and the fact it's a Grumman Iron Works product, and it still beats everything else in the class. And it's had the records since the early 90s when they put the 427 motors on it.

I'm sure the E-2D could do better, much better, but they aren't letting it's specs be public.




I would have to say I agree 100% with Casey and Jasons comments.

I will add to the list the Beech 1900/D model which I used to fly. A beast of an aircraft, and also a hot rod.

Of course 'ugly' is subjective. We called it 'flipper' because of all the fins hanging off the tail.

I eventually came to see the D model as a beautiful aircraft.



:cheers:

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