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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2016, 13:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
TBM 900/930 and a think an update is available for TBM 850 G1000's


Yes standard on the 930 and retrofitable on the 850/900 with V15.
I chose not to do it, Im getting the AOA/USP kit.
Im not a big fan of the autopilot taking over when its off.

Here is the retrofit kit, its an extra $14K for the ESP package.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2016, 16:06 
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I hard part of the retrofit cost were new autopilot trim actuators or some such. Probably slightly faster or stronger?

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2016, 14:41 
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Some early sn G1000 TBM 850 needs to have the a/p servos replaced, if I remembered its around sn 610 and lower.


Username Protected wrote:
I hard part of the retrofit cost were new autopilot trim actuators or some such. Probably slightly faster or stronger?

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Former Baron 58 owner.
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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2016, 20:58 
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Username Protected wrote:
I chose not to do it, Im getting the AOA/USP kit.

Why not? Cost?


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2016, 19:49 
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Yes cost and I dont see the need.


Username Protected wrote:
I chose not to do it, Im getting the AOA/USP kit.

Why not? Cost?

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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2016, 20:40 
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While SETP's are not easy to get into unusual altitudes or LOC, it has been the achilles heel of the SETP's. Turbines fly in a lot of challenging weather, and a lot of IMC. While many TP pilots are A-game material, many are just regular folks, and even the A-game types can have a B day. I like the envelope protection over the AOA solutions, since I really don't understand if a pilot is going to ignore pitch power airspeed and attitude, why they magically pay attention to AOA. On the other hand, if I didn't have ESP I would have AOA/USP, but the invisible stuff is more likely to work on that B-day. Cirrus Piper and Daher (930) have ESP, only the Piper has the automatic AP engagement if the algorithm detects an out of control pilot. Cirrus and Piper have the blue level button, kind of like a punch out button if you know things are deteriorating, press the blue button and the plane will go straight and level with stall protection as well.

Another nice feature of envelope protection with the GFC700 is coupled go-around. On your worst day all you have to do is hit the go-around button on a missed approach and push the power lever forward. The FMS AP takes care of the everything else. All the other items can be done at a later time, like pulling up the gear, flaps, communicating, etc. So maybe B-pilot gadgets, but the NTSB reports are full of A-game pilots that had B days. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2017, 10:29 
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Was able to finally demo an M600. It is quite a nice upgrade from the M500. I have to say that the way this plane flies exceeded my expectations. At least compared to the Meridian, there are some changes. I will just list some of them.

The M600 has much more authoritative ground handling during taxi, take off, and landing. The brakes are much more responsive.

The extra 100 HP and new wing makes the climb rate in spite of our gross taxi weight of 6050 lbs, a little faster than the Meridian. We were seeing 2000 fpm initially. The climb felt a little funny from the back due to the high angle of climb. Had the sensation as a passenger that the pilots were pretty high above you, not sure what the pitch angle was, but definitely pressed me back in my seat. The Meridian will outperform it up high though, we settled in just under 1000 fpm above 27,000 feet whereas on the same cold day, I would expect the Meridian to still be over 1000 fpm in the climb.

The airframe is heavier and stronger, the wing stiffer and the turbulence we experienced was a non-issue. The plane flies very smoothly. The M600 is quite the panel. I was so sensory overloaded that I almost wanted to simplify it, I guess after a while, you could get used to all that information. There are almost unlimited ways one could customize the 3 split screens with inserts and tiled windows. Overwhelming for this G1000 luddite. ;-)

The cockpit is a little roomier thanks to a redesigned pedestal, the cabin more luxurious than the Meridian M500. The seats seem to be of higher quality. The Black leather with red stitching and carbon fiber table were nice additions as I stretched out in the back prior to my turn up front.

The descent was impressive. We peaked out at Mach 0.548 in the descent. We were still pushing Mach 0.5 as we were approaching the SLC Bravo inner circle, or 248 KIAS. I was surprised that they did not ask us to slow, since earlier in the day, I heard SLC slowing the airliners to 180 and 170 indicated on the arrival.

Perhaps the most impressive thing was looking at the range rings. We climbed up to FL280 climbing to the west of SLC, and even after the climb at 28,000 ft, we could hit pretty much anything In the entire US, most of Canada and Mexico including the East coast of the US with reserves and then some. I flight planned SLC to New York yesterday, could hit NYC from Salt Lake with 1.5 hours of reserve fuel at normal cruise. I have heard this from some owners of the M600. Piper is very conservative with the true range of the plane. We also had 50 lbs more fuel onboard than max, which I have also heard that the tanks will hold more than the advertised 260 gallons (1742 lbs) as we started with 1790 lbs.

Overall, some nice upgrades to the Meridian/M500. I would say definitely gives the TBM a run for its money. Not quite as fast, but more efficient, and in my opinion the cabin and cockpit are more comfortable than the TBM. A couple inches wider, but not quite as tall. For a million less, one would really have to want that extra 60 knots of the TBM930. The TBM does also have some improved storage, and cargo loading options that some might find useful. Overall though, this plane exceeded my pretty high expectations.

This plane is nice. I heard that this unit is actually going to an owner that had been planning on getting a TBM.

Attachment:
M600.jpg


Attachment:
Cabin.jpg


Attachment:
Range.jpg


Attachment:
Descent.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2017, 10:52 
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I got to fly that same aircraft when it was in Seattle a few weeks ago, by the look of it with the same guy in the right seat (I know both WA and UT are in his territory).

Very nice. I'm looking for it for work, and I have a particular mission in mind that needs the space in the back for people and gear, but not so much for luggage. I need to get between test sites quickly, and then be able to loiter efficiently while the guys in back do their thing. The range is good too. The M600 is faster than a Baron on similar fuel flow, and much more efficient while loitering. The TBM and the Pilatus both have their pluses and minuses, but the M600 is right in the middle of this envelope.

I wouldn't normally look at a new aircraft, but in this application a 5 year warranty (7 on the engine) is attractive, aided by low interest rate for the acquisition. The other choice is a small jet, but the maintenance costs will be far higher, and the fuel efficiency much less, plus it will probably require dual pilots.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 07:22 
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great pirep! What was differences in speed vs Meredian up high?

What fuel flow were you seeing at 280? The pic was grainy and I couldn't tell. Also, what were the different range rings? All seemed much further than I thought that plane could go.

That higher Speed down low will be really nice in busy airspace where they keep you down in the weeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 11:09 
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I flew out of Boeing Field in Seattle, and at FL270, throttled back, the range rings covered almost the entire country, Seattle to Maine and to about Atlanta. Couldn't quite make Florida, but close.

I saw 275kts down low.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 11:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
great pirep! What was differences in speed vs Meredian up high?

What fuel flow were you seeing at 280? The pic was grainy and I couldn't tell. Also, what were the different range rings? All seemed much further than I thought that plane could go.

That higher Speed down low will be really nice in busy airspace where they keep you down in the weeds.

Looks like 255pph at 250kts. Only a few more PPH than the Meridian.

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 18:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
Looks like 255pph at 250kts. Only a few more PPH than the Meridian.

Chip-


Oh Chip, you aren't going to like this at all, but actually it was 258 KTAS AT 255 PPH. So pretty much the same speed per fuel flow as the Meridian. That new wing is very efficient. The cruise tables are pretty much the same as the Meridian, if you want to go Meridian speeds. If you want to go faster than that, the FF increases. You probably already know that there are people that fly Meridians faster than the cruise tables, so you can do the same thing in the Meridian, if you were inclined to do so. ;) I typically just run the tables. I am looking for a cheap Hot Section.

Here is a blown up image, but seems like I am still losing detail in the post?

As far as the range rings. The first white ring is a 1000 nm fixed ring, the dotted green line is IFR, no alternate reserve, and the last solid green ring is fuel exhaustion over destination. At that point, heck you still have another 84 nm of glide range :D


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 14:06 
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Has anyone got any PIREPS on the M350, especially from someone that has actually owned one and had an annual or two?


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 14:42 
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Charles, you sure about that map. It's 1600nm as the crow flies from KTEX to KFXE

:pilot:

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 16:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
Has anyone got any PIREPS on the M350, especially from someone that has actually owned one and had an annual or two?


It's a mirage


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