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12 Dec 2018, 02:05 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: POGO Says: USAF Brass Cooked the Books to Ground the War
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2018, 20:03 
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FWIW, as a retired AF fighter pilot, air-to-dirt and air-to-air, it pains me deeply that I must agree with Don's argument.

The AF lost its tolerance for risk a long time ago. It penalizes aggressive traits and risk taking, while promoting minimally competent managers.

It no longer deserves the CAS mission, which is simply too important to entrust to a service unwilling to accept significant combat losses and without skin in the game on the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: POGO Says: USAF Brass Cooked the Books to Ground the War
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2018, 15:58 
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Hey Don, my dad went to the Far East to take over a P 80 squadron and almost literally woke up on a MATS transport to Korea to go fly P-51s. Nothing but CAS and truck/train busting interdiction for the next two years in the same outfit as Chappie James. Their airfield was on an island in the middle of the Han River with the NK army on one side and the ROKs on the other. I never heard him disparage the mission or complain. It had to be done so they did it. Did they have it as bad as the grunts-no, of course not. But it wasn't any walk in the park and they took a lot of losses in the process. Your frustrations as a former infantry officer aside, assigning worst case motives to those who argue a different point of view is unfair and probably inaccurate. (And this is coming from a Navy guy who had his own knock down drag out arguments with the Old Man.)


--hard to add much to Dick's candid comment that the AF doesn't deserve the CAS mission, but maybe I could weigh back in...

--Hi Steve, I have no doubt your Dad is a great man and served his Country with distinction..

--but that doesn't change the historical fact that MacArthur (who I'm no fan of) preferred Marine CAS during his most pivotal campaigns in Korea...fact...and MacArthur, despite that he went off his meds in going against the intent of his civilian leaders while in Korea, was proficient in Combined Arms Tactics and worked hard in his formative years perfecting his craft...

--it is also a fact that by Korea the newly formed AF had already started to set its own course of calling the shots-- insisting for instance that Air Interdiction missions were more important than CAS...fact...and things have progressively gotten worse in this regard--fact on steroids

--as far as "assigning worst case motives to those who argue a different point of view is unfair and probably inaccurate" --straw man alert :ahhh:

--I'm not assigning worst case motives, but it is a fact that the AF has lied, been deceptive, and otherwise disingenuous in their campaign to dump the Hog, while all the while insisting on keeping the CAS mission and the funds that go along with it...fact...and pointing out this fact can hardly be characterized as "assigning worst case motives"....I'm not "assigning" worst case motives, I'm "identifying" the worst case motives

--I've been arguing for some time in our own virtual hangar--much to the chagrin of our member experts and peanut gallery chiming in from the cheap seats -- that the AF could indeed conduct CAS in a high intensity conflict provided that they be willing to work as a team within a Combined Arms concept....It was good to see POGO weigh in on the subject with such clarity...

--hell, I guess it is fine if you want to talk about the proliferation of enemy Air Defense systems that presumably prevents the AF to descend below the Flight Levels to support our troops and marines on the ground....but I don't hear our Army's Armor and Mechanized Infantry Leadership saying they can't fight because the bad guys have vastly improved their anti-armor weaponry...and it is a definite fact that indeed our potential adversaries have Vastly improved their anti-armor capabilities-- but yet we Soldier on and continue to improve our own weapons and tactics to defeat the enemy

...that's pretty much been the history of our Armed Forces...we historically don't just capitulate on an assigned Mission because the bad guys have improved their own technology and tactics like the AF has now done on their CAS responsibilities in a High Intensity Conflict because their potential adversaries have upped their game in their air defense capabilities...


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