I have to say the Citation V does not ride turbulence like the MU2 did. The MU2 cuts through it with aplomb, sort of softly moving about without much discomfort. The V tends to be sharper and more "washboard" like, like driving at high speed on a rutted road, which comes from the higher speed and lower wing loading.

The V is not bad, but it is definitely worse than the MU2 was.

Mike C.

Does the mitts have a web site like other aircraft.

Official website, and you get more access with an account:

https://www.mu-2aircraft.com/

Some useful info on Howell website:

http://mu2b.com/Information/

There is an email forum, email Dave Klain <dave@klain.net> to join.

Mike C.

Just a bit of thread drift for interesting info. People often overlook or miss the single most important aspect of the F-104:

It helped, more than any other aircraft type, rebuild the post-war aerospace manufacturing prowess of several countries, to include three former axis powers. (Italy, Germany and Japan)

It wasn't that those countries didn't gain experience building airplanes, the F-86 was license built by many of the same plants. But the J-79 and the F-104 were both much more exotic with the materials and processes required for the thermal environments they operated in.

People lambaste the -104 for being a failure as a fighter, but it was a huge success for other reasons.

Thanks mike. If you load 6 180lb people in a f model how does the wt and balance look? Does it stay n the envelope?

I’ll say yes. It’s hard to get a Mu out of balance (just makes them nicer to land).
Same with weight.

The F is a modest climber. Kinda pooped at the end of the teens, much like a -5 or -6 long body.

Tj

Usually, yes.

The main cabin club seats (5 places) are under the wing, so loading doesn't move CG very much.

Whether there is one of two up front makes the most difference, but the short body arm is not much. I never had to ballast or shift loads to make W&B work out. This is quite unlike, say, a Citation or Piaggio where loading moves the CG quite a bit and you have to be careful.

My MU2 was tail heavy a bit due to having both batteries in back (good mod, moves CG back and saves weight for copper cables to the nose). I also had basically nothing in the nose avionics bay (and sometimes used it as a baggage compartment). Tail heavy made it faster and more pitch sensitive.

The biggest knock on the F model is wheezy -1 engines. It will be weight limited in summer and flying in the mid 20s is not usually done. Think of it as a 260 knot, FL200 airplane. My M model with -10 engines is at the other end of the spectrum, it is a 290 knot, FL280 airplane, or a 310 knot, FL220 airplane.

A good friend flies his F model all over the place. If you want to dawdle around at low altitudes, the F model is the best one. They can be picked up pretty cheap when they come on the market. Gradually, as the engines reach TBO, many of them are being parted out. There are 12 F models on the US registry presently.

F models tend to be unique in many ways. They varied almost by each serial number from the factory, and with 50 years of history, been subjected to lots of mods. The later models are somewhat more consistent.

Mike C.

Here's the very plane in this thread, N18BF.

Gave you 6 200 lb people and 300 lbs of bags. Still 4.5 hours of fuel (to exhaustion)

In this thread I posted my Solitaire W&B spreadsheet. You can download it and hack around to your hearts content to see various load scenarios.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=206046&p=3053673&hilit=Solitaire+spreadsheet#p3053673

Thanks guys very nice info

Lynn,
gotta disagree with Mike a little on the F model. While it is true it doesn't have the horses of the later models, you can fly it at FL240-250. I do it all the time on long trips, look at Flight Aware , N228WP this past Saturday. It does take a bit to get that high, 28 minutes to FL250 on the first leg and this would be worse on a hotter day, but in the winter, no problem at all. The pay off is fuel burns of 56-58gph and 240KTS rising to 260KTAS as you burn off fuel. As Mike says, the fuel burn at lower altitudes is less, so if you are shooting approaches the cost is less painful. The later planes can climb faster and will be ~30KTAS faster at FL270-280 on say 65-70gph depending on the temperature. On my trip to Massachusetts in August my block fuel burn was 60 gph with 5 people and their baggage. Got all the way from KHIO to KEWB with one fuel stop in Minneapolis. Flying time was under 8 hours and 45 minutes. The F model isn't a bad alternative if you don't have the bucks to buy one of the faster ones, and it is still faster than a King Air or Cheyenne of comparable vintage. My plane is a 1972 model, one of the last F models made.

Jeff Axel
N228WP

That's not typical of F models I am aware of. Maybe many of them have engines under performing or some other issue, but I would caution that if you want an F model to regularly fly at FL240/250, make sure it will do that on a prepurchase demo flight.

Mike C.

That's not typical of F models I am aware of. Maybe many of them have engines under performing or some other issue, but I would caution that if you want an F model to regularly fly at FL240/250, make sure it will do that on a prepurchase demo flight.

Mike C.

For reference, Lowrey has an F model, SN 140.

His won't go to FL250 unless very light and cold. He routinely operates FL180-200. In summer months, he is gross weight limited.

If bucking a big headwind, he will fly lower, like a recent flight west out of Maine where he flew at 12,000 ft. The F model is more amenable to this tactic with the smaller engines. The later models with bigger engines would not generally do that since the fuel penalty is higher and they fly faster overall.

The lowest I flew my M model was 16,000 ft when avoiding a 150 knot headwind at FL280. Painful.

Mike C.

I loved flying my F model at 17,500 talking to no one on a nice VFR today. Extremely peaceful and fast way to travel. But no, mine wouldn't go to 240. I tried real hard a few times and it just couldn't do it. Great 260kt machine.