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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 22:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you have an issue you'll never know it.

The computer tells you if pressure drops/is dropping

If you're talking about "explosive" decompression then yeah, you won't know. But that's the case on a 737 too.


This is something I'd like clarification on. When we did the BT chamber ride a number of years ago they dumped the pressure at 25,000 feet. It was pretty obvious what had happened. We all had some time to get our masks on (although one of us did wait too long...). Has anyone dumped the cabin at 310? Is it significantly different than 250?
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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 22:41 
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Key word "dumped".

It won't always be a "dump". Can't it be a slow leaker?


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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 22:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Every flight is single pilot in the flight levels.

Except for all those 17.5 VFR flights. :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 22:48 
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If it's a slow leak you may not know it regardless of altitude. That is where warning systems and paying attention to hypoxia symptoms can make a difference. It's not instant death and while a second pilot can be a help its pretty obvious from the accident record that that's no guarantee of a safe outcome either - whether at 20,000 feet or 40,000.

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 22:51 
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In my old antique, the only warning is that the 10000ft Cabin Light comes on. Very easy to miss in a slow leak scenario in daytime. No aural warning whatsoever. I'm sure my plane isn't the only one that has this design. That said, mine's only certified to FL250.

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 23:32 
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Nobody is taking chances, a good pressurization system with lots of failure warnings and a big O2 bottle that will last you a few hours??
Don the mask and you will be fine.





Username Protected wrote:
I had a pressurization failure emergency at 310 this summer. Quick don mask on in about 5-10 seconds from annunciation with no ill affects at all. I don’t hesitate to fly that high single pilot but I do think recurrent training (which I had had 60 days earlier for the second time in a year made a difference).

Yep it's fine until it isn't. If you have an issue you'll never know it. the fact that you took a chance and got away with doesn't change the fact that you took a chance. We all have a different risk tolerance and I personally put that one pretty far to the edge. Others disagree and that's fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 23:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
310? Is it significantly different than 250?

The time of useful consciousness tables for rapid decompression start dropping off pretty fast around 30,000 and up.

(The TUC tables are also implicitly the inverse of the time it takes you to regain your full faculties, once you’re on supplemental oxygen if you were unfortunate enough to be slow getting the mask on and flow started. Your brain doesn’t fully recover right after the first breath.)

Slow leak isn't all that bad if you can detect it and address it in a timely manner.

Probably already covered in the thread, but explosive decompression (by definition it's when the air gets sucked out of your lungs faster than you can exhale) is physiologically something different and much worse- and fortunately it's exceedingly rare.


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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 01:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you're talking about "explosive" decompression then yeah, you won't know.

It is the opposite.

A rapid decompression is noticed by all. Masks on, land safely, usually.

The slow leak is what kills people. Don't notice, never wake up, bye bye.

Been dozens of examples of the later despite warning lights for cabin altitude.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 01:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
Slow leak isn't all that bad if you can detect it and address it in a timely manner.

Historically, that's been the problem, failure to detect.

Nearly all decompression accidents are the slow kind.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 08:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you're talking about "explosive" decompression then yeah, you won't know.

It is the opposite.

A rapid decompression is noticed by all. Masks on, land safely, usually.

The slow leak is what kills people. Don't notice, never wake up, bye bye.

Been dozens of examples of the later despite warning lights for cabin altitude.

Mike C.

The Pilatus “bings” and lights start flashing. Easy to detect. It never happens and there are thousands of PC12s flying.

The new TBM auto descends.

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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 08:49 
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Time to revive this old thread, now that Cirrus has proven that it can be done. The SF50 is certified and flying at FL 280, with rumors that Cirrus will take it higher. How did they succeed when several people on this thread cited FARs that such certification was impossible? What does Cirrus know that Mike C. doesn't?

Epic is planning to certify to FL 340, and Stratos FL 410. Can they do it? How high can they go, what is the real limit?


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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 10:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
The new TBM auto descends.


Cirrus had auto descent in the SR22 for a number of years now. No input on the G1000 after X minutes it automatically descends. I am pretty sure the SF50 has it also.

I would not be surprised if auto-descent was just one of the features that allowed the FAA to let the SF50 go higher. I am just wondering when the auto-descent to get the feature to automatically change the transponder code, and verify route will not hit a mountain.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 10:59 
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I’m sure all planes will have it.

TAWS is on most aircraft too. Avoiding a 10k peak shouldn’t be difficult. I’m sure it already accounted for.


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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 11:53 
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Username Protected wrote:

This is something I'd like clarification on. When we did the BT chamber ride a number of years ago they dumped the pressure at 25,000 feet. It was pretty obvious what had happened. We all had some time to get our masks on (although one of us did wait too long...). Has anyone dumped the cabin at 310? Is it significantly different than 250?


I remember it as being significantly different. I think the Air Force chamber ride did one at 350 or so, and you got silly pretty quick. 250 was kind of a yawn, a nonevent.


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 Post subject: Re: Single engine pressurized above FL 250
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2018, 00:42 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
Username Protected wrote:
The Pilatus “bings” and lights start flashing. Easy to detect. It never happens and there are thousands of PC12s flying.

The new TBM auto descends.

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