'Cept the good tasting Starbucks is a hot fact.

I think Mike's perspective on the SF-50 is pretty much correct in terms of the lack of advantages of SF-50 over a SETP and it's disadvantages from a light twinjet. But I disagree that there isn't a market for it, I'm pretty sure there are enough buyers even at the new price to generate sales, at least until the twinjet Mike has postulated could be sold for the same price and trip costs with better capabilities becomes available.

Clearly the SF-50 doesn't make sense to Mike but it sure looks like the kool aid is selling to others which suggests there is a market potential that Mike just doesn't see. The only point he's made that I suspect is in error is the notion that Cirrus is somehow violating the terms of the existing sales contracts. In any case I don't see much point in arguing with Mike on the specifics, he's not going to be swayed by other's opinions or even their take on the market.

Until I followed your link I thought there was a wikipedia page on Mike's comments in this thread.

Just a thought. Mike C says over and over again that the order book isn't growing. Im not sure how he would know this and if its true or not. But my guess would be that the people that are willing to wait years to get one of these have already signed up. There are still lots of people left that would buy one, but they wont sign anything until the wait gets down to normal time frame.

My thought is they are out there but don't want to sign for something and be on the hook for 4 years. If you told them they could have one in a couple months, they would be asking where do I sign?

So you agree that if Cirrus requires more money from position holders to get a plane, be it G1 or G2, they have reneged on the contract.

Now all that remains is to substantiate that Cirrus has raised the price to existing position holders.

I guarantee that has happened for there is no reason to increase the price now other than that.

Mike C.

You can follow claims coming out of Cirrus over the years.

June 2010: 431 orders

October 2013: 500 orders

February 2014: 550 orders

February 2015: 550 orders

July 2016: "over" 600 orders

December 2016: 600 orders

January 2019: backlog is 540 (after delivering ~88 aircraft).

So the order book is not growing significantly. There are usually two periods or growth in the order book, early during product announcement, and then during the early years of production. Cirrus has not experienced that second phase yet and probably won't at the recently announced prices.

If they had ever hit 700 aircraft on the order book, you can bet Cirrus would have said so to encourage the bandwagon effect.


Which, if they are smart, means they can just buy one on the secondary market. You can do that right now, in fact.


Cirrus made comments recently that they could deliver planes quickly to new sales customers. They have "slots" in the order book to satisfy these new sales.

Which means, of course, the poor folks who waited 12 years get delayed even further when that happens.

Mike C.

Think of how cool it would be if it went to FL410, 60 knots faster, burned less fuel, had more range, and you didn't die if the engine quit at 400 ft AGL?

Wow, that would be AWESOME! But that sounds so hard to do!

Nope, Eclipse did it 12 years ago...

Mike C.

So am I supposed to click thru and play detective to figure out what you’re saying?

I make time to BeechTalk but life’s too short...

Where do you see that they require more money from position holders? I am totally not following your logic here.

They way I read the contract, if you bought the position for $1.3MM, you get the plane for $1.3MM. They can build you G1 or they can give you G2, but you are still getting the plane for whatever you originally contacted for. Plus options and CPI, of course.

Good luck with that.

Mike C.

Good luck with that.

Mike C.

Actually here's substantive proof you're wrong. I just read a review of the G2 in Plane & Pilot and the author said:

"The G2 Vision Jet is shipping. Customers who already have a vision jet on order will get all the other goodies for their original purchase price and can add the autothrottles for an optional upgrade price. New orders will pay around $2.7 million for the jet with all the goods, including autothrottles, updated seating, paint scheme and more."

So...doesn't that contradict your point? Sounds like they are getting an even better plane for the original price with the option to upgrade if desired!

I only wish I had such luck to hold an early position on SF-50, but you haven’t offered a shred of evidence that it isn’t what’s going to happen.

I heard 2 Vision Jets on the radio yesterday on my flight back from the Bahamas.

I didn't hear any MU2's.

Us MU2 drivers are having to work for a living! it was a MONDAY!