19 Apr 2024, 14:24 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50  Posted: 17 May 2017, 14:01 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote:
GA is anything using an FBO.
not owned by Signature or Atlantic (put your own green font on if you like) 
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---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 14:02 |
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14568
Post Likes: +22930
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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GA is a lot more than people using FBO's
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 14:10 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: GA is a lot more than people using FBO's For GA to exist.... someone needs to be making money.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 18:33 |
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 8005
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Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: I would say that "joe the plumber" GA is fine too. Lots of people building Rans, Kitfox, etc. It's the planes in the middle that used to be bought by "adam the accountant" that aren't doing so well. I agree with this assessment. The thing, however, is that Joe Plumber used to able to buy and operate a Bonanza, while Adam the Accountant was flying around in a C421 or P-Baron. Now Adam can barely afford a Bo and Joe probably just bought used 20-foot boat. 
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 18:39 |
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14568
Post Likes: +22930
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Username Protected wrote: I would say that "joe the plumber" GA is fine too. Lots of people building Rans, Kitfox, etc. It's the planes in the middle that used to be bought by "adam the accountant" that aren't doing so well. I agree with this assessment. The thing, however, is that Joe Plumber used to able to buy and operate a Bonanza, while Adam the Accountant was flying around in a C421 or P-Baron. Now Adam can barely afford a Bo and Joe probably just bought used 20-foot boat.
Actually he bought a new boat, which he can operate without training or a license, store for free in his driveway, add a swim platform or change the prop pitch without permission from the government, and does not need a doctor's permission to drive. There is lots of middle class money being spent on high priced toys. They just aren't toys that fly.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 19:43 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13066
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: GA is a lot more than jets and FBOs, That's not what I said.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 19:49 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
Post Likes: +7090
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: GA is a lot more than jets and FBOs, I've moved my entire aviation operation to a grass strip. We have our own fuel tanks, maintenance, hangars and a great community of smart people with experimentals and traditional GA birds. It's aviation utopia off the grid and it's a very special place that I think will be part of the backbone of the survival of little airplanes. The place is called Grassroots and I think it's exactly that for GA. Michael, truly applaud you for that. I believe you are correct in your assessment. Folks can afford to fly, we need to make it less dangerous and more fun.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 17 May 2017, 20:10 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
Post Likes: +7090
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: I have a friend that flies a PA24 nice little plane, safe and cheap. He spends yearly about what I spend for my luxury SUV all in. You can fly on the cheap. If you want airline dispatch rates and 250+ knots well that is not going to be cheap. Agreed. My Mooney is damn cheap to operate.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 May 2017, 22:55 |
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 8005
Post Likes: +6892
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: Actually he bought a new boat, which he can operate without training or a license, store for free in his driveway, add a swim platform or change the prop pitch without permission from the government, and does not need a doctor's permission to drive. There is lots of middle class money being spent on high priced toys. They just aren't toys that fly. Well, middle class incomes have been declining for years (or, rather, they have been stagnating while prices are increasing), so while that particular Joe may have bought a new boat, there are fewer Joes that can do so now. All those other issues are real, of course, but at the end of the day the middle class is simply getting priced out of aviation.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 May 2017, 23:47 |
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Joined: 04/04/14
Posts: 3321
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Aircraft: B757/767
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Username Protected wrote: Actually he bought a new boat, which he can operate without training or a license, store for free in his driveway, add a swim platform or change the prop pitch without permission from the government, and does not need a doctor's permission to drive. There is lots of middle class money being spent on high priced toys. They just aren't toys that fly. Well, middle class incomes have been declining for years (or, rather, they have been stagnating while prices are increasing), so while that particular Joe may have bought a new boat, there are fewer Joes that can do so now. All those other issues are real, of course, but at the end of the day the middle class is simply getting priced out of aviation.
Yep.. I remember when I was in college, median starting wages for my degree from my school were about $60k or so.
20 years later.. It's $66k. Cost of living has gone up FAR more than 10% in those years. Just the student debt load alone would eat that over what I paid to get my degree.
I remember when I graduated in 2001.. breaking six figures was REAL MONEY.
Now, it's not poverty, but I'm not buying an airplane with this either.
The year I graduated college (01), my parents house sold for $189k.
It just sold last year for $433k.
My current house has had a similar slightly more than doubled selling price in the 1997-2015 window.
Cost of living is outpacing wages for a lot of middle of the road middle class jobs that probably could have afforded aviation 30 years ago.
I got a 1-2-3 punch of getting laid off, then sued and THEN getting audited. That has taken almost two and a half years just to get close to where I was financially then in terms of savings and (lack of) debt.
I've had relatives that I though were reading the "Old Economy Steve" memes to me telling me to just get a second part time job and I'd pay off my house in 3 years like they did.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 22 May 2017, 20:14 |
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Joined: 11/10/13
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Location: Kcir
Aircraft: C90
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[FaceBookVideo][/FaceBookVideo] Username Protected wrote: Tom Haines flew the SF50 recently... https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/aop ... 170518ALTWNo new info in the video really, a few interesting tidbits, he reiterates the ease of transition from an SR. Starts at the 5:05 mark. Tom is a member. Perhaps he will post some additional details.
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