SSE = 118 in my bird. You can go slower for sure but at that speed nothing bad can happen very quickly

I'll toss in some thoughts here, which are worth what you paid for them

I'm not an instructor, but have recently gone through transition training in the Aerostar so a lot of this is fresh in my mind.

-All piston twins have an astonishing amount of drag available compared to singles when you pull the throttles back and the props go into low pitch. the Aerostar is no exception. This is both a "bug and a feature" but you can use it to your advantage.

The last bit of flaps in the Aerostar is a ton of drag, and should be delayed until you have the runway made. A go around in a 601P with full flaps would be very difficult at least. John Grady Green has some good posts on this somewhere, I can't remember whether they are here or on the AOA forum. The 680-700hp airplanes are probably different.

There's really no good reason to be below the blue line in a twin while flying the pattern, until you are close enough to the runway to easily coast in even if an engine quits. The extra speed will bleed off very quickly when the throttles come to idle. Blue line on the 601P is 109 kias, and stall speed at gross is 77. Most of my landings are 1000# below gross so the actual stall is noticeably lower.

I usually roll out on final at 110-120 knots and 30 degrees of flaps, put in full flaps when landing is assured, and speed is falling through 100 knots just past the threshold as I start to flare. If I've timed everything right I don't need to touch the power or change the descent angle, just add flaps. I'm looking down the runway as I touch down, so I don't really know my touchdown speed but I'm guessing it's around 80 knots. My airplane does have an AOA indexer on the glare shield which makes it easier.

I've never flown a Columbia, but we do have a Cirrus SR22 which I've flown a lot over the 13 years or so we've had it. It's much more critical to nail approach speeds in the Cirrus, as the airplane is harder to slow down. I actually find it most difficult to land slippery airplanes with fixed-pitch props. It's easier to make a spot touchdown (like at Oshkosh) in the Aerostar than the Cirrus.

If you need a single "drop dead" speed I'd use the blue line.

Another thing to keep in mind is that few of us are as good as we think we are, and that includes those of us who fly Aerostars. Careful and thorough transition training is required, but low speed loss of control accidents are not common in aerostars (or other piston twins for that matter). The airplane has really good single engine behavior.

I'm based on a 3800 foot runway, and find it adequate. It would be short at maximum gross weight with an engine failure early in the climb, so when I need to depart heavy I reposition to an 8000' runway 9 miles away. Landing isn't a problem at any weight. The accelerate-stop tables say the airplane would do it most days, but there's no margin at all for sloppiness or errors so I cheat and use the big runway if I need to leave heavy.

120 until you have landing flaps, the world won't end if you go 118, but slow you can develop a lot of sink. 120+ is solidly on the positive/forward side of command, whatever speed you set, the plane will do a good job of maintaining that speed. Below 120 you are going to need a lot more power to maintain altitude, and airspeed is going to be less stable.

Generally, I use 125-135 (130) as my target approach speed.

The plane will fly at 100Kts clean.
(I retract flaps at 100 on take off)

I shoot for 100Kts across the fence (landing flaps).

If my speed is off, I'm at 110 NOT 95.

Welcome!

Forrest has roughly a billion more Aerostar hours than I do, so give his advice more weight than mine.

Experiment with Lester at altitude as well. I think you'll find that 10 or 20 knots too fast at 200' AGL and half a mile from the runway is simply a non-issue as the speed will go away in the blink of an eye if the airplane is dirty and you pull the power.

The Aerostar is a very low drag airplane when clean, but very high drag with full flaps. It slows down quicker than a Baron.

As Mark Twain once wrote to a friend: "I didn't have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote a long one."

No, I'm not really. James, in his short time with an A* has learned well as has Forrest in his long time with the Aerostar.

In other words, I can't add much other than tell you what I do.

Pretty much as Forrest does.

So, I will reiterate a couple of points that can NEVER be overstated.

First, the Aerostar is two different airplanes: one with less than full flaps and another with full flaps. That is not a bad thing, in fact it is a very good one. It makes the airplane do what you want. When you put down full flaps you had better have the runway right in front of you or altitude. In return, it makes landing the Aerostar like pointing a pistol with laser sights. You aim it at the touch down point, with enough power, and you go there. RIGHT THERE.

NOW, I'm going to make one of those over the top statements. My 601P is one of the easiest airplanes to land consistently I have ever flown. Just don't "play" with the numbers.

Secondly, the 601P simply won't fly with full flaps and gear down. An aborted landing, when you have full flaps, means FULL POWER NOW, and get those flaps up to 20 degrees before anything else.

The third point in my "couple" of points, is that Forrest and I kind of see 116-120 knots as our "blue line". Taking off or landing, the airplane feels good there. With 20 degrees of flaps, gear down, and about 16" of MP, it will ride the 3 degree GS down like on rails at 116 knots.

So, there is my "short" letter.

Jgreen

I do my approaches at 120 kts, 20 deg flaps.
Short final 30 deg flaps,

Then full flaps and slow to 100 kts over the fence.

I agree with John, the Aerostar is easy to land consistently. Much more so than the Comanche.

It has been a few years but...
Pattern, 130.
Approach, until GS: 140. Once on glide slope, gradually slow down to 130 via power reduction.
130-120 via first notch of flaps.
Goal was 120 about 500ft AGL or half way through base if pattern.
Full flaps hit when crossing the fence. Brings you down to 90 at the numbers.
Make sure to land with some power, much easier to "grease it".

After landing, trying not to look like a grinning idiot for flying one of the best piston planes ever, and be a little professional

Tim

You guys are AWESOME!

Thanks for all the advice.

I have my number....for at least the first 100
hours

THIS IS GONNA BE FUN

Of course it's going to be fun, that's a foregone conclusion when you own an Aerostar.

Mine may be a little different since it is a factory 700P so it has 540 U2A's, no water rudder and no vortex generators. It is the only Aerostar that I have ever flown so I don't know how it compares in terms of performance.

I generally fly into a 7000 foot runway in class B space so I do about 140 knots till about a 2 mile final. Then I go to 20 degrees flaps at 25" of manifold and the plane slows to 125 at a 500 fpm descent. At one mile I go full flaps and the plane will slow to 117 knots (blue line) at 25" of manifold.

Over the numbers I pull the manifold to 15" and no less, start running the elevator trim, and set her on the runway at 88 knots. I am shy about reducing manifold to complete idle because one time the airstream must have pushed the prop to feather -- i did not like that.

Most times I keep flying the nosewheel till about 80 knots when she quits. Although I can set the nose of the Lear down without even feeling it I have yet to get to a point with the Aerostar where the nosewheel coming down is undetectable. I think the AOA of the wing just doesn't like landing but the trade off is speed in cruise.

On my airplane she will go around with full flaps and 42" of manifold but the control forces are huge at full flaps. On a go around I always start retracting flaps and running trim simultaneously since one is hydraulic and the other is electric. Mine will climb out at sea level with one engine. I learned that because I lost an engine at 50' a few years ago when the fuel line to the Bendix fuel servo split wide open and resulted in a total loss of fuel pressure.

Eric brings up go arounds:

On an instrument approach, I stay gear down flaps twenty until I have the runway in sight.

Go arounds are easy:

Pitch (+ 5-7, the point is to stop the descent), Power (TO Power), and Gear up, flaps up.

Trim for 120-140,

At 120+ knots it is an easy low stress maneuver, basically a take off without having to wait for the plane to accelerate on the runway. (For a 700 that wait isn't long).

Doctrine says don't go to landing flaps until the landing is assured.

Of course there is going to be a time when you are on short final at something less than 100, and something unexpected requires a go-around.

Full TO power will stop your descent, retract flaps (in increments below 100KTs), to 20 deg, at 100KTs, you are back to a normal TO or go-around.

Details:

Below 100Kts your Job is to accelerate, and not descend, as soon as the plane starts to climb and accelerate - gear up

Even with full flaps, and heavy, the plane will accelerate to 100 very quickly (especially a 700).

At 100Kts, go arounds are easy
Take Off Power
Positive Rate -gear up
Flaps up (even if you are at full flaps)
Pitch and Trim for 120

At less than 100 you have to touch the flaps at least twice and think about them at least once.




On a take off, or go-around you are making configuration changes and power changes, the plane is going to respond to those changes.

If you are sloppy (enough) about keeping the plane doing what its supposed to be doing, (especially IFR, no visual cues), the plane (with you inside) will contact the ground at 100+ and come to pieces.

1st rule of aviation:
Don't be sloppy.

2nd rule of aviation:
Do overs are not part of the game

3rd rule of aviation:
Every pilot has a last day they'll go flying, not every pilot knows when that last day will be.

4th rule of aviation:
An aviator remembers rules "1", "2" & "3" and smiles as they walk out to their aircraft.

Some of you really need to ready what the FAA considers "Stabilized Approach Criteria" and give some consideration to how it pertains to flying the Aerostar. It might be an easy airplane to fly, but you can't fly it like a 172....

Jason

What do you mean?

Tim

Eric...was that on takeoff with the gear down and partial flaps?... if so that it impressive!

Jason,

I understand exactly why you say. Yes, you need to establish a stabilized approach, which, I believe, all the A* flyers here do with one codicil. We have to stabilize and then completely reconfigure the airplane when we go to full flaps. You have every right to scratch your head at this logic, but until you ride in an Aerostar as it goes from 20 or 30 degrees of flap to full flap, you really can't understand. It is akin to jumping an unseen stump on a four wheeler: things change fast.

There is nothing you can do in a Bonanza or Baron to simulate the effect. If you have flown a Skylane or 172, imagine going from zero flaps to full flaps on short final. That is pretty close. Yes, you could just land with 20 degrees of flaps but the touchdown speed, ground roll and wear and tear on the brakes and tires is unacceptable. Yes, you could put down full flaps at the beginning of the final approach, but you would pretty much be at 80% power on approach in my 601P. If you read the posts carefully, you will see that "the rule" is to go to full flaps WHEN THE RUNWAY IS MADE.

If there is one characteristic that demands a full checkout in the Aerostar by even the most advanced pilot, it is this transition from 20 degrees to full flaps on final and learning to deal with the extreme drag created in that configuration.

Jgreen