03 May 2025, 13:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 19 Dec 2023, 21:26 |
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Joined: 11/07/11 Posts: 790 Post Likes: +452 Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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Definitely. I remember the green dye vividly.
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 19 Dec 2023, 23:31 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5162 Post Likes: +5122
Aircraft: C501, R66
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Username Protected wrote: I have been following the Hill helicopter videos and they are making their own Turbin engine and even their own blades. It’s been an interesting process to make the blades. They print the mold then cast the actual blade. They seem to think they have it figured out.
Mike I’ll stick with my boring R66 until they get some hours on these. Otherwise it’s beautiful and I want one!
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 08:53 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5162 Post Likes: +5122
Aircraft: C501, R66
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Username Protected wrote: I agree. I think Hill with have some serious growing pains and technical challenges. I have yet to see a new start up bite off this much and do well. So ambitious out if the gate.
But yes I want one also. Haha
Mike It really reminds me of a helicopter Eclipse jet; the exact same attempt to reinvent the wheel on all facets of the machine. Why not just go with a proven Rolls-Royce engine and Garmin Avionics? But it’s so cool that you are rooting for them to succeed, even though you know that it is an impossible thing to do.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 12:48 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1603 Post Likes: +1678 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: It really reminds me of a helicopter Eclipse jet; the exact same attempt to reinvent the wheel on all facets of the machine. Why not just go with a proven Rolls-Royce engine and Garmin Avionics? But it’s so cool that you are rooting for them to succeed, even though you know that it is an impossible thing to do. +100. I know the world needs dreamers but people need to learn from the successes and failures of others. They are trying to do too much and are going to go down in flames. Sucks as there is a lot of good there. I really like the small electric motors on the wheels to assist with parking. Genius.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 15:01 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3137 Post Likes: +2282 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: I agree. I think Hill with have some serious growing pains and technical challenges. I have yet to see a new start up bite off this much and do well. So ambitious out if the gate.
But yes I want one also. Haha
Mike It really reminds me of a helicopter Eclipse jet; the exact same attempt to reinvent the wheel on all facets of the machine. Why not just go with a proven Rolls-Royce engine and Garmin Avionics? But it’s so cool that you are rooting for them to succeed, even though you know that it is an impossible thing to do.
There’s still the possibility even today that a very smart person with enough energy and money can change things. Look at Koenegsegg.
I think even in large projects you’re really relying on a handful of heroes and a lot of worker bees. Lose those heroes and everything falls apart. Ex Safran Silvercrest.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 15:15 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4699 Post Likes: +5296 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: There’s still the possibility even today that a very smart person with enough energy and money can change things. Look at Koenegsegg. You don't even have to look that far. I remember when Williams was a plucky upstart engine maker ready to challenge the whole industry by being the first to make an efficient engine that was the right size for Cessna's new CJ line. They were successful, and now people complain about them being the 800 lb gorilla.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 15:42 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 7802 Post Likes: +10188 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: There’s still the possibility even today that a very smart person with enough energy and money can change things. Look at Koenegsegg. You don't even have to look that far. I remember when Williams was a plucky upstart engine maker ready to challenge the whole industry by being the first to make an efficient engine that was the right size for Cessna's new CJ line. They were successful, and now people complain about them being the 800 lb gorilla.
I didn’t realize they were a plucky upstart, I thought they were a major defense contractor who made billions building engines for cruise missiles and then took that knowledge and experience and applied it to general aviation?
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 18:27 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4699 Post Likes: +5296 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: I didn’t realize they were a plucky upstart, I thought they were a major defense contractor who made billions building engines for cruise missiles and then took that knowledge and experience and applied it to general aviation? Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story! The news stories I read at the time were very pro-Williams and painted them in a David vs Goliath way. I imagine Williams' PR dept was busy writing those stories.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 19:04 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3137 Post Likes: +2282 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: There’s still the possibility even today that a very smart person with enough energy and money can change things. Look at Koenegsegg. You don't even have to look that far. I remember when Williams was a plucky upstart engine maker ready to challenge the whole industry by being the first to make an efficient engine that was the right size for Cessna's new CJ line. They were successful, and now people complain about them being the 800 lb gorilla.
I suppose you could say that about most companies, but making boat engines from Chrysler jet car IP and then getting a contract for the then new field of cruise engines seems more like being at the right place and right time. There was no reason to create a small turbine until the car application, or boats, neither of which made sense. Tiny bizjets became a thing and Williams entered the market later.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 20 Dec 2023, 21:03 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19931 Post Likes: +25003 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I have been following the Hill helicopter videos and they are making their own Turbin engine There are a lot of potential applications for a low cost 300 HP class turbine engine. Maybe they should concentrate on that first. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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