22 Jun 2025, 13:56 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:02 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Username Protected wrote: Wow, those fuel burn figures really get my attention!
You're getting about 3.5 miles/gallon (350kts/100 gallons), whereas a 421 gets about 5 (200/40) and a Bonanza gets around 10 (170/17).
Yes, JetA can be cheaper than Avgas, but still... Expensive fill ups.
Robert Pretty close to what I get in the low flight levels in the KA! But I get there a lot faster (g) I usually true about 225 in that at 65 gph. Of course, a bit longer climb in this.
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:07 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Username Protected wrote: Nice view from up there, isn't it Dave  It sure is. I can see how one can top a lot of weather compared to what I'm flying now. Cabin was around 6,000 feet up there. Have to say, as I get into this more, it's becoming more apparent some things just aren't built/designed as well as Beech. The luggage doors are pretty flimsy and Steve said today to hold them up while inspecting. One has come down on him in the wind and really wacked him. Several other thing like stairs to enter are just not as sound. Still, in those higher altitudes the plane is really quiet. Our headsets covered one ear to listen to the radios with the other uncovered so we could just chat directly.
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:10 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Username Protected wrote: Dave, did your Citation pilot give a reason for not filling the tanks completely? I thought the II/IISP aircraft had a fuel capacity just shy of 5000#. They do, we didn't need it, but he put 4,000 pounds in to start so I could get a feel for how the plane handled heavy. Only two of us in it and CG was pretty far aft. In the straight II, I can't fly that alone without some weight in the nose compartment. As you know, CG starts pretty far aft in these birds.
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:14 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Username Protected wrote: Those engine instruments look good across the board. Good rules of thumb. If people really knew how easy flight planning was, lol. Did you get a chance to check the air cycle machine at all? Hopefully selecting manual and a warmer temp wouldn't cause too much of a bump in the cabin. You can always turn the windshield heat on as well and see if the cabin bumps. Cheers, sounds like a great flight. We put on the front windscreen air as we descended, would that cover it Steve? I really was just trying to see what the plane would do and I'm not purchasing this one. He had easy to remember numbers for different altitudes: IIRC, mid 20s he said to plan 1,200 pph. I didn't like that much (g) I see I'm not getting any likes on here, so, maybe I'm overstaying my welcome (g)
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:30 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Insurer approved Rich Aviation here in my area to do the initial training and type ride; so, looks like that's settled. Just have to find time to attend now (g).
We found a plane we really liked, but dealer may have it which means we can't get what's called an occasional seller exemption on sale/use tax. That's an additional $70,000 or so in cost which is about what it would cost to upgrade avionics the way I want them. Unfortunately, others may not benefit from that exemption and compete for this bird, so, will have to see. Crazy that cost would increase that much because it's someone in the business that sells... sigh.
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
Last edited on 21 Aug 2014, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:35 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7391 Post Likes: +4860 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Pretty close to what I get in the low flight levels in the KA! But I get there a lot faster (g) I usually true about 225 in that at 65 gph. Of course, a bit longer climb in this. You don't need both a KA and a Citation, you need an MU2! Best of both worlds, I get 300 KTAS on 500 pph in the mid-20s (down to ~440 pph at FL280) and I get 300 KTAS on 620 pph when VFR at 15,500 for a short hop. I base out of a 2600' (sea level) airport. I will grant that you would not get the quiet cabin you get in the Citation, that's very nice. As is the ability to get into the FL300s to top weather.
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:46 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7391 Post Likes: +4860 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Jon: we can sure tell you like your MU-2  Gotta pump the breed. 
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:58 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Dave, I appreciate you sharing the details of your quest to understand & obtain a Citation.
If I move too a jet, I want one that will out range my Merlin IIIC and remain single pilot. The only one I know that will do that is the Williams SII....
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 19:05 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Username Protected wrote: Dave, I appreciate you sharing the details of your quest to understand & obtain a Citation.
If I move too a jet, I want one that will out range my Merlin IIIC and remain single pilot. The only one I know that will do that is the Williams SII.... I don't know much about the Merlin, Erwin. Didn't think that was single pilot; its it? My partner in the KA has some time in one and said it was a very busy plane to fly but that may be in a different model. Yes, the Williams engined plane has a lot of pazazz, but it's twice what I want to spend right now. Just me, you many be in a different position. My thought is this is really a nice step forward for me at this point. The 500 series type rating leaves a lot of future options open. Trying to walk a bit before I run I really don't need a jet; will have to see how much actual use I get from one. 
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 21:09 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18651 Post Likes: +28811 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Username Protected wrote: :D Hey Dave! I gave you a like! I'd like to be your aircraft broker....as it is, I'm just "broker".  Word is you're flying for those fast track folks again! Hope it's working well for you.
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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