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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 13:50 
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As far as the interior space issue goes...

When the Lear 23 came out & people were complaining how small it was on the inside, Bill Lear said "well, you can't stand up in a Cadillac either".


There's another option ;)

There is a Lear23 on the IRG website, book value 85k :thumbup: (reminds me of some past cars where retail value fluctuated depending on how much gas was in the tank).


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 14:01 
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Speaking of fast and sexy with a girl and a toothbrush - you could always do this for much, much less (my client/friend's L-39)


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 14:02 
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As for buying an airplane based on how it "feels" when you hand fly it..... I understand that some people like a certain feel, I guess.

The TBM "felt great" to me. It was "heavier" on the controls than my Bonanza for sure. I don't think that's a bad thing. It's a heavier plane.

However, pushing that throttle forward and leaping off the runway and climbing like a "stuck pig" is unlike anything I've ever felt in my Bo.

No comparison.

Also, the future of aviation, especially in a plane like a TBM and up is using the autopilot. All my training I've done with the G1000 it's stressed over and over and over to use the G1000 to fly the airplane. I used the G1000 to fly the TBM from 200 feet off the runway until 50 ft. before landing.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 14:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
As for buying an airplane based on how it "feels" when you hand fly it..... I understand that some people like a certain feel, I guess.

The TBM "felt great" to me. It was "heavier" on the controls than my Bonanza for sure. I don't think that's a bad thing. It's a heavier plane.

However, pushing that throttle forward and leaping off the runway and climbing like a "stuck pig" is unlike anything I've ever felt in my Bo.

No comparison.

Also, the future of aviation, especially in a plane like a TBM and up is using the autopilot. All my training I've done with the G1000 it's stressed over and over and over to use the G1000 to fly the airplane. I used the G1000 to fly the TBM from 200 feet off the runway until 50 ft. before landing.


All very true Jason, the "feel" can be very subjective and to some people it just doesn't matter. That Royal Turbine is the most impressive acceleration and climb I have ever experienced. 9 second ground roll and pegged the 4,000 fpm VSI all the way to 12,000 where we leveled out.

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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 15:33 
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I don't reach the carrying limits ever. But, I also don't plan trips with more than 3 other people ever.

I just don't like the idea of spending millions on a TBM and not having the option to carry any more than my Bonanza.

In other words. I like my Bonanza. I like flying it. I like the speed it gives me already. I can already do Atlanta to Nassau in a little over 3 hours non stop. I already have great capability.

"Speed" isn't necessarily what I need. I like flying. I don't have to be there in 1 hour.


I'm at a time in my life where I can look at different options like owning a TBM....and I've actually put a lot of thought into it. Here's the catch:

Five year program of owning a new TBM will cost a little north of $2,700,000.00! That includes the purchase price, cost of money, depreciation, operating costs, and a selling commission to get out. I always use the "five year memory" as my hard test for the actual costs. Everything you own sells eventually so you might as well go thru the math from beginning to end if you want to be honest with yourself.

If you're flying a single piston like a Bonanza, it fits your misssion well, and you're fine with the concept, then you'll never get to the table to sign a purchase contract for a turbine. A Bonanza is at least 1/5 the cost of a 5 year program in a TBM. When you reach the point where you actually have the income to buy a turbine, you've seen enough to realize there's a whole lot of things in this world to spend the difference on. (Gee, I can't believe I'm saying all this! I really sorta want one!) The competition for ideas that is chasing millions of $ in this world has become pretty hefty.

To buy a turbine, you have to be at a point where flying in a non-pressurized piston becomes a deal killer for you and moving up becomes absolutely necessary for your mission.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 15:42 
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Five year program of owning a new TBM will cost a little north of $2,700,000.00! That includes the purchase price, cost of money, depreciation, operating costs, and a selling commission to get out.


What is the 'five year cost' for:
- a used KA90
- a used 2002 TBM 700C

I suspect that depreciation and cost of capital are what is driving the majority of your 5 year number on a new aircraft. Right now, the market is flooded with lightly used planes, the numbers may not be as grizzly once you avoid the new aircraft depreciation hit.

Still, that kind of aircraft 'needs a job', ideally a job that makes you lots of money, not just one that allows you to lie yourself into believing that you NEED an aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 15:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
Five year program of owning a new TBM will cost a little north of $2,700,000.00! That includes the purchase price, cost of money, depreciation, operating costs, and a selling commission to get out.


What is the 'five year cost' for:
- a used KA90
- a used 2002 TBM 700C

I suspect that depreciation and cost of capital are what is driving the majority of your 5 year number on a new aircraft. Right now, the market is flooded with lightly used planes, the numbers may not be as grizzly once you avoid the new aircraft depreciation hit.

Still, that kind of aircraft 'needs a job', ideally a job that makes you lots of money, not just one that allows you to lie yourself into believing that you NEED an aircraft.


Yep, you can lower the costs with used, but it's still "real" money. Although, used isn't always a whole lot cheaper at the end of the day.

You missed my point....if a turbine "makes you lots of money", than a single piston isn't the right choice for your mission.

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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 16:17 
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I agree with you Rick.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 16:58 
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nothing in aviation is "sensical", we don't need to fly to go get a hamburger, it's WAY easier, cheaper and faster to pop one on the bbq at home. It's all just a matter of how much "you want it" and "how much it's worth to you", which varies from person to person.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 18:38 
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Graduated HS in 81, in the US Navy for 6 years, got out and have had to wear a suit and tie ever since. Mullet's just never quite made it into my repertoire.


Mullet is a lifestyle choice. Can be worn with any kind of attire including suits.



You trying to tell us you're sporting a mullet Dr Flo?
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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 18:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
nothing in aviation is "sensical", we don't need to fly to go get a hamburger, it's WAY easier, cheaper and faster to pop one on the bbq at home. It's all just a matter of how much "you want it" and "how much it's worth to you", which varies from person to person.


What's with all this hamburger talk? I've never flown to get a burger. I fly 2 to 3 times a week for business. I wouldn't make the trips if I didn't have the airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 18:55 
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You trying to tell us you're sporting a mullet Dr Flo?


Nah, never have. Today I had to go to the security office to get a new ID card. 'Officer Bruce' has a beautiful mullet to go with his Uniform :thumbup: It can really be worn with any style of clothing.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 18:57 
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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"Business in the front, party in the back"


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 19:16 
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That was a business trip. It's documented :D

It really is.


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 Post subject: Re: My TBM850 Demo Today
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 19:20 
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Joined: 04/08/08
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Location: Provo, Utah
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Just in case some are wondering ... :D


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