Why don't you suggest they go on the low utilization TAP payment plan? No minimum hours on that plan.

Hello Mike,

No this is not correct. We have not stopped offering the 300 hour addendum to eliminate the annual minimum for a new enrollment at any point. If the aircraft is currently enrolled on TAP, then the 300 hour addendum is not an option. For a new enrollment, this would not be a concern. Really it shouldn't be anyhow.. I understand the hesitation to pay for hours you might not fly, but this is of little relevance when you consider the cumulative cost of TAP verses commercial costs of just the required services is so dramatically discounted.. in fact once you reach 67 hours per engine, you would have broken even verses standard commercial costs for required service work. Any time flown beyond that represents savings verses paying commercial. At 100-125 hours you are well past this point. In addition, the macro view of this is if you ever have an unscheduled event, ever have any sort of SB, corrosion or if you ever sell the plane, then with enrollment you would save that much more as they are all covered by TAP or paid out of pocket when not enrolled. If you sell, the Aircraft Bluebook, VREF, AIN all demonstrate a near dollar for dollar return on your investment in additional resale value. Even if they are All off by 50%.. so what.. if you recovered 50% of the cost for service you have to pay simply by operating your aircraft, that means you operated your plane for 1/2 price from a service perspective! There is simply nothing in the industry or any other for that matter with such a great bargain. That well offsets any perceived loss from paying for an extra 25 or even statistically 82 additional hours annually.

As for the contract, the coverage is the same as the contract version you have.. when you are ready to enroll, let me know and i will draft a new contract version for you. As this conversation has continued for over 2 years, you would be nest served seeing the latest contract in whatever year you proceed toward enrollment as some items such as qualification standards will change over time. Blue still covers everything except sabotage. All scheduled, unscheduled, all SB's, corrosion at an MPI, SC fees, Line Labor, Shipping, Rentals when required, FOD.. all covered by Blue.

Let me know when you select the right plane for you and we can run an updated enrollment calc and provide you with the required documentation to enroll.

Kind Regards,
Brad

Bradley W. Deuel
Total Assurance Programs/ Global Sales
Williams International; Direct: 800.859.3544 x 2809
Offices: Pontiac, MI 48341 / Miami, Fl 33131

Hello Mike,

You are very welcome.. and as for commercial costs.. I handle all new enrollments Globally, and when looking at fleet averages by each engine platform, you will find when you consider fully loaded costs considering Line Labor, Service Center Fees, RR, shipping, rentals, on wing service costs, test cell fees etc.. the average commercial Hot Section to be around $490k, the average commercial overhaul to be around $1.18M and then 32 check 1 and 2 services through the check 4 overhaul event for another ~$200k... that is before you factor in any anomalies throughout 10k hours of flight (from 2 engines).. Looking at over 7000 engines on TAP, you can drill down to an average break even point of 67 hours.. some more some less, but the average. And again, it simply is not relevant. Everyone sells their plane. The only debate is for how Much more, not if it is more when enrolled. All major 3rd party reviewers suggest nearly a total return of investment.. which would represent operating for Free form a service perspective. That is why I say it doesn't matter if it is 50%... not that the dollars don't matter, just that whatever you did do, you did for half price in the extreme example of 50%.

If you find an aircraft which is not yet enrolled let me know and I will help with a cost analysis.. if the aircraft is already enrolled, it could be transferred for Free assuming the account is current... which is a large reason why VREF, AIN, Bluebook etc.. etc.. have rated our engine program #1 in the world for the past ~20 consecutive years.. the program stays with the plane.

Have a great time searching for your next aircraft!

Kind Regards,
Brad

For support by phone:
1-800-859-3544 (US)
1-248-960-2929 (Outside of US)

My correspondence with Williams TODAY:



The 300 hour option is only for new enrollments. Not clear if that means after 5 years, you can't renew on the same terms, so it is only a one time "introductory" offer, of it you can continue it in subsequent contract cycles.

I then inquired about the 67 hour break even point mentioned in the email:



The pricing of off program engine work is startling to say the least. Previously Williams had claimed off program work was price 30% higher than program payments. The above makes is more than double the cost to be off program. His numbers total $1.87M per TBO cycle ($490K for HSI, $1.18M for overhaul, $200K other life cycle costs).

$1.87M for ONE engine! That's $468/hr based on a 4000 hour TBO. WOW!!!!!!!!!

Basically you are better off getting on program with 1 hour to TBO. That's about $800K/engine.

If you have an off program Williams, you have a disposable airplane, or you will be economically forced to join the program when you could have had it all along.

Mike C.

This does explain the confusion over this issue. We never look twice at an airplane that is not enrolled on TAP or at least on TAP deferred. So, they are willing to bend their own rules if you buy an airplane that isn't on a program at all, so they can get it on the program.

This does explain the confusion over this issue. We never look twice at an airplane that is not enrolled on TAP or at least on TAP deferred. So, they are willing to bend their own rules if you buy an airplane that isn't on a program at all, so they can get it on the program.

How is the Honda engine program, is it as Draconian as Williams?

Jets are expensive. Who knew?

I do wonder why Honda wouldn’t push like heck on an stc for their engines?

Hard to imagine spending the full rack rate on an old cj2 with timed out off program motors.

I don't understand why Williams engines aren't free to the OEM. They should be to win every design. Then Williams gets all its revenue from the operators. Thrust as a service.

Mike C.