They don't pull the engines off for HSI checks unless there are SB's that need to be done to the engine. Then the engines are pulled and sent to Michigan.

I don't believe Williams will replace major parts in the field. So the approach you describe will not work with the way Williams does the HSI for most engines.

And Williams talks about what improvements they are working on and they have never mentioned what you are speculating.

Exactly. Many jet and turbine customers ride in the back and hand the job of managing it over to someone else. That someone else might be the accounting or flight department or an outside manager who takes care of budgets, maintenance, downtime, crewing the aircraft, paperwork and so on.

If you're "that guy" who manages the jet(s), you get fired if you are always walking into the staff meeting with some new horrific unplanned expense or if the boss can't go to Aspen, for the umpteenth time.

Your job is to "manage" and that means keep it ready to use and to keep steady, predictable expenditure patterns, plan for next quarter's budgeted maintenance intervals with no surprises. You don't budge *at-all* on the money required - because the boss doesn't fly if the money isn't spent. If you try to nickel and dime it and you hit an unplanned engine event that's in the 6-digits and weeks of downtime, you're not a hero because you saved all that money, you're the guy who blew the budgets and can't manage the jet.

Not a corporate flight manager - just a corporate survivor.

The view is different as an owner/operator with some aircraft owning history. We're used to taking chances, shopping for parts and better deals on maintenance and lumping the risk of major event $$$ and downtime.

These kinds of plans exchange risk for predictability and they are sold for profit by the company selling them.

I have a client that won't consider a CJ series without all the programs, and he wants to add CASP as well.

He's neither stupid nor frivolous, he simply wants predictability.

Jet buyers are often much less concerned about cash than they are time and hassle factor.

So a $210,000 HSI inspection can be done on airplane in a remote hangar, and not replace any major parts.

So where's the money?

Mike C.

So a $210,000 HSI inspection can be done on airplane in a remote hangar, and not replace any major parts.

So where's the money?

Mike C.

Proparts does not create predictability.

If he needs a lot of parts, he will end up paying for them at some point. That will either be a lump sum when he sells the plane with a negative Proparts balance, or a much higher Proparts hourly fee on renewal. Eventually, all parts cost gets charged to the customer.


There's nothing about Proparts that changes the availability or timeliness of getting parts that I can see. You can buy a new windshield from Textron and have it with the same lead time whether you have Proparts or not. Proparts only affects whether you pay for it in as needed, or you paid for it in monthly payments.

Mike C.

Don't I get those same intangibles if I order a part from Textron without Proparts and pay for it right then and there?

Mike C.

Don't I get those same intangibles if I order a part from Textron without Proparts and pay for it right then and there?

Mike C.

It appears to me that these programs are ideal for those spending Other Peoples' Money.

I understand Mike's heartburn. You lose the opportunity to save money in these programs. Even if you would not shop parts or suppliers, the loss of the opportunity and the lock-in is a "cost" of its own.

Depends which program you are talking about. Each program has unique designs.

Williams TAP may save you money over going naked. Depends on your utilization, engine age, and SB status.

Proparts is unlikely to save you money. There is only one contact condition where if you run out the Proparts to contract end and don't renew and you used more parts then your balance Cessna will eat the difference. But that is a one time event and you don't get more bites of that apple.

Anyone who thinks the main benefit of the programs is cost savings is being misinformed.

Don't I get those same intangibles if I order a part from Textron without Proparts and pay for it right then and there?

Mike C.

I think we all, Mike included, "get it." MC has done the due diligence, and the options are apparent, although distasteful -or not- depending on how you want to look at it. But what are you going to do? It is what it is, and complaining about it isn't going to spin things in the direction you'd like. You can roll the dice going bare and maybe you get lucky, maybe you don't. The longer you're in the game increase the chances that the house will win...

*("you" being the "Royal You")

And this is what keeps me out of turbines. I don't think I can play this game better than the program people do. Second guessing it and being sly and savvy works on the piston stuff a lot easier. Somewhat so on many common turboprop twins. But newer turboprops and especially stuff with turbofans is a whole different ballgame from where I sit.

I think we all, Mike included, "get it." MC has done the due diligence, and the options are apparent, although distasteful -or not- depending on how you want to look at it. But what are you going to do? It is what it is, and complaining about it isn't going to spin things in the direction you'd like. You can roll the dice going bare and maybe you get lucky, maybe you don't. The longer you're in the game increase the chances that the house will win...

*("you" being the "Royal You")

Mike's analysis is what every buyer goes through to various extents (maybe not quite to Mike's extent ) before they buy their first jet. The first thing to consider is the market category you're looking in. To Mike's credit, he's looking at a category that goes both ways, TAP and no TAP. That's creates market confusion. You have to look at the current market value of the airplane, anticipated future market value, and finally the personal risk tolerance. Engine programs are insurance as well as reserves. If a bearing goes bad and the engine eats itself, are you comfortable writing a check for a new engine? I would prefer to not take that risk. Peace of mind has value, even if it's low risk. Someone told me that a new Mustang consists of a million dollar fan on the right and a million dollar fan on the left, both connected to a million dollar tube in the middle. The question is how do you want to insure your asset?