On a $1.5 million plane, perhaps. On a $500K plane, I don't know. I'd approach it from the perspective of what I can sell the engines for. That's your wholesale, quick out.

On a $500K plane you have $300K of engines and the airframe prebuy is basically a $50K insurance premium on $200K of airframe. I'd just take the risk.

On a $1.5 million plane, perhaps. On a $500K plane, I don't know. I'd approach it from the perspective of what I can sell the engines for. That's your wholesale, quick out.

On a $500K plane you have $300K of engines and the airframe prebuy is basically a $50K insurance premium on $200K of airframe. I'd just take the risk.

My understanding is a phase I-V inspection (annual) is $50k on an S/II. The owner fixes airworthy items which could be $200k.

As far as comparing the cost of a prebuy to the purchase price I don't agree except in extreme cases say $1. What you should compare it to is the expected value of the cost incurred if not discovered in a local shop prebuy. It's a bit like poker. Am I getting offds to call a bet?

Pistons are like limit Holdem. Jets are like no limit holdem. Huge difference.

I disagree. Jets are not no-limit. There is a cap on costs and it's the scrap value of the plane. If you can spend a few AMU on the engine inspection and feel certain you have a readily saleable $300K pair of engines then when you buy a $500K jet, the worst you can lose is $200K. If you get to the first annual and the bill is $400K, you sell the engines and wash your hands. In that case, you are spending $50K on a pre-buy to insure against a maximum loss of $200K. Don't see much value there.

You might have the same dynamic on a Williams plane, just with $800K of engines and $200K of airframe. Or it might be $500K of engines and $500 of airframe.

But purchase price (vs. salvage price) matters in terms of what a $50K prebuy protects you against.

I know of a couple owners that buy a jet for under a million and fly it until the maintenance cost peaks and sale it for salvage.

They say the aircraft brings more money for salvage then it would on a standard sale price.

That's what I was saying in another thread.

Even if the loss after four years is 200k and you flew 400 hours. That's a $500/hr loss. Add in cost of fuel and you can't fly a jet cheaper than that. I think these jets are like poker, no doubt, but not in the sense of rules. In the simple sense of knowing when to fold 'em.

550's are tricky, but I'm fairly confident you can snag a couple 500's for $250k. At that point, I'd imagine the engines would break you even. Can't beat that.

One of the critical items that must be reviewed is the cycle times and OH status on many components. Things like the starter generators and the ACM. If it was a 135 aircraft components should have been OH's according to manufacturers specifications. If a 91 aircraft items could be past OH times. You need to understand the status and possible future expense of what you are buying.

Now let's say that has been done and you don't do an extensive phase check as described above. You are going to start dropping tens of AMU's getting the plane in shape for the way you want it. So the risk in the above example is not $200K but also you have sunk into the aircraft before you discover a show stopping financial event.

So far we are just looking at the economic dimension. Let's now look at safety and dispatch reliability. Especially if this is a business aircraft that will be carrying customers and employees. An owner operated personal aircraft can put up with glitches and unplanned maintenance events while a new aircraft is being shaken down. I would not take a 40 year old turbojet of unknown pedigree and put it into service of a business without an extensive maintenance check. Especially if that aircraft is going to be flown single pilot. They are complex machinery that are simple to fly when all is working but can be a handful in a new unknown aircraft if things start failing.

If you are going to bottom fish in the turbojet market you had better have local maintenance who is familiar with the aircraft type. And the aviation knowledge and resources to manage the aircraft.

The purchase price is only the entrance fee into this game.

Do you expect oil to stay at these levels for the next few years? I would not base the economics of an acquisition on oil staying at these levels.

What type of support services do you have locally? Biggest costs after acquisition will be maintenance and fuel. Do you have local maintenance with experience working on older Citations? Do they or you have the capability to shop parts sourcing?

Can you install your own fuel farm or get a good volume price on Jet-A?

These types of things will make as much of an impact on your costs over time as the acquisition costs.

Allen's points are all valid. I, too, caution against getting into the jet market via a 30-40 year old aircraft without an excellent pedigree and continued source of quality maintenance. They can definitely eat you alive and take all of the fun out of it. OTOH, a well taken care of 500 series is an excellent aircraft and can be cheap proposition if bought correctly.

I've never owned a jet, but I've owned three turboprops (and five piston airplanes) over the past 15 years, and I can tell you that no matter what you do at prebuy or who does the prebuy, you're going to be working out kinks for the first 100 hours. People who sell airplanes generally let things go a little at the end, and often, even if that wasn't the case, the bird has been sitting for a while.

Want to screw up an airplane? Let it sit for a little while.

I think you have found your answer.

And you expect to get all of that for a buy-in of $500k, eh?

Citation II SP gets you close.

There you go again thinking like a pilot....what's my plan b if things don't turn out like I thought? Good on ya.

I think it is a matter of buying right to begin with. Buy right and your exit options are higher. I think it is a mistake to assume that you can buy right just cause you bought x number of piston / turbo props in the past. Jets are a whole different deal. Better records too. I think one should plan on working with an acquisition advisor and doing a phase V plus ($50k) prebuy.

Comparatively small investment (although high as a% of sales price) given the risks and need for "exit option value".

Am I thinking correctly?

Add me to the vote count on the Citation S/II.

It performs noticeably better on all ends of the spectrum than the 550/551. You will have to get an SP waiver annually, which bumps training costs over the SP (-1) Citations, but you will not be limited by the arbitrary MGTOW limitations in the 551.

Use the money you save over a C25A to pave your runway.

Be happy you have TR's, they are wonderful no matter what anybody says.

Fly it daily while gas is "cheap".