I'll publish it.

Jason is the only guy on BT who can immediately generate 30+ pages on ANY topic on Beechtalk...he's got readership already!

He'd probably be the most successful author since the guy that wrote I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell.

Have you never been given a descent crossing clearance with "no speed restriction"?

If mike has the mileage in him he might give JC a challenge. He's batting almost .500 on posts/likes.
Nothing like a good boxing match on BT.

Women watch soap operas, we read BT

I am not sure the forum participation wager carries the same value for both sides of the bet...

I think you need to give odds on that one or find an alternative chit on which to bet.

His post support came generally from Cessna drivers. I strongly suspect he "brought" support....

It must be a conspiracy, only way to explain it.

Mike C.

That doesn't mean you can exceed the speed limit. Here's a link to the ATC rulebook section on speed control.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... 507.html.1

Here's a couple relevant notes from that section. There are several more.

NOTE-
1. A pilot operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL on an assigned speed adjustment greater than 250 knots is expected to comply with 14 CFR Section 91.117(a) when cleared below 10,000 feet MSL, within domestic airspace, without notifying ATC. Pilots are expected to comply with the other provisions of 14 CFR Section 91.117 without notification.

2. Speed restrictions of 250 knots do not apply to aircraft operating beyond 12 NM from the coastline within the U.S. Flight Information Region, in offshore Class E airspace below 10,000 feet MSL. However, in airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport, or in a VFR corridor designated through such as a Class B airspace area, pilots are expected to comply with the 200 knot speed limit specified in 14 CFR Section 91.117(c). (See 14 CFR Sections 91.117(c) and 91.703.)

Have you never been given a descent crossing clearance with "no speed restriction"?

Boring is all the speculation in the thread. I'm just trying to get the naysayers to back up their predictions.

You always have that option. Then you get a 20 minute detour while they find a big enough hole to fit you in while SW lands a bunch of 737s. That will cost you 40 gallons of fuel down low in a jet. That potentially causes a divert.

The combination of being a jet and not acting like one will cost you a lot.


I bet a light jet can do it, particularly if it has high gear speed.

I don't know if SW does 230 to the marker routinely, but they were doing it that day, I was put between two SW 737s so everybody had the same speed restriction to keep spacing.

By comparison, KORD only asked for 170 to the marker the two times I have landed there. KMDW is one tight airport.

Mike C.

+1. No way I could do it in a CRJ and comply with my company's stabilized approach criteria.

Why not? The plane is obviously capable of going that fast if the pilot wants.


LiveATC archives don't go back far enough to hear it, otherwise I'd have you listen to it yourself.

May 2, 2009, 9:31am CDT, ILS 31C KMDW.

Mike C.

Several times coming out of KSGR we were given a turn then climb to 230 no speed limit; we'd wind it up to 325 and let it climb like a homesick angel.

Houston had a waiver for a test for high speed departures. That has since been canceled. (January 2004) So it is no longer legal to give the clearance or accept one to exceed 250 under 10000.

Who had the waiver? Houston ATC?

But you said ATC can't give pilot's the instruction to exceed speed in 91.117.

If so, then such a waiver wouldn't actually work, right?

Mike C.