Haha! I’m glad to see this plane getting the recognition it deserves. I’m sorry I’m not able to make a move sooner. I guess I’ll end up with some high-time sloppy seconds!

I’m hoping!

Agreed, Massimo at Orion knows his P180's and has the European market well covered. Wetzel are great here.

I was seriously looking at a Hungarian-registered 1991 model that Massimo had on his books with run out engines. It had about 50hrs left on them, just about enough to ferry to the US and put on FAA-register. At the time it was almost something I could swing with the right financing and selling my TC. They were asking $800K, but I think they would have let go for a lot less, maybe even $600K. Today it's a different game - I no longer have a pot to piss in. And the prices have gone up in this crazy market. I was always hoping that the next big downturn would be my best bet at an entry point, but now with you numbnuts ( ) talking it up so much on a public forum, I'm probably gonna miss that opportunity!

I'm joking, of course. The world gives us what it gives us. I'm forever grateful I even made it to aircraft ownership at all. Still, hope for a P180 one day...

Woe is me,
Perfectly happy in me Aerostar until Adam comes along and post about Avanti.
MU2-easy to ignore for me
Commander-slight temptation but nah
King Air- all that extra money to go 20 knots phastR
Meridian- all ready passed over when I purchased Aerostar
TBM- ok, kinda tempting

AVANTI
I love CATFISH
I am still managing marginal productivity at work until Anthony then Tony fan the flames.

Now my wife is on board, at least in for exploring.
Ginny says: "It's not a catfish it's a Hammerhead shark, and btw, I will be expecting that 5 carat diamond soon."

Pic below:
yesterday @16,500 with only 10 knot headwind.

If I am going to get less than 5nm/gallon I would rather be going 350

THANKS Adam

You might want to have somebody look at your right engine.

Brad,

Don't let your wife go for a ride in one unless you are committed! ]

I've looked at, carefully, all the other planes you mentioned and owned one of them. None can do what the P180 can do. The MU-2 is cheaper certainly but it's not in the same league, that's why Anthony traded up. Neither is the Commander, and when I looked seriously this year the ones that were anywhere near as nice as my Avanti cost more to acquire. The Meridian and TBM are different kinds of aircraft. They are both excellent for their missions and I really liked my TBM except for the crazy expensive maintenance part. But they are like sports cars - think Mazda Miata and Porsche Panamera respectively - compared to a Ferrari Purosangue mated to a Bentley Mulsanne.

Brad,

Don’t listen to these Pied Pipers with their siren song of mpg.

You want to go fast.

https://youtu.be/hBj56yb_iOc

Part of going fast is actually getting airborne.

Your current plane does that.

To give some of you who are thinking about a P180 some reasons to moderate your interest I thought I'd list some things I don't like about it:

-The soot that collects on the propeller blades is a PITA to get off. Let it go 10 hours and you have a real job on your hands.

-The pilots seats are a bit rock hard. They get uncomfortable after about 2.5 hours. I'm goin to experiment with a bit of Oregon Aero magic and see if it gets better.

-Loading data into PL21, even with the new USB stick based dataloader, is very 1990's.

-Pressure refueling works well for 2700 pounds. It seems many fuel trucks don't have the oomph to get you all the way there (many do). That missing 100-150 lbs really matters on long legs. Fueling from the top is not convenient. On anything other than max legs none of this matters but when it's freezing cold or precipitating it would be nice to get a full fuel load with the pressure system. I don't think it's the plane's fault but still an issue.

So far, that's it.

Tony - two thoughts on fueling:

- the temp of the fuel influences what shows up on the gauge. i have topped with fuselage tank in warm weather and still only received 2740lbs. On cold days I have gotten up to 1850

- if you are not, always have fuel guys pause for about 5 min then try and add more. i usually can get another 10 gallons in this way.

You better not do any more math...the P180 gets OVER 5nm/gallon at FL390.

And, of course, it's using fuel that costs as little as $2/gallon.

Thanks, I'll try that.

On Saturday headed to KSNS from KPWA we were making pretty good time at 383KTAS with an 80ish knot HW. I already planned a fuel stop at KHII ($2.95 a gallon) because my planning showed we'd have 400 lbs. at KSNS with a full load of fuel. Not enough. Under way we showed 400 even though we only got about 2700 loaded. If I'd had that extra 100 lbs we'd have made it with 500 pounds to KSNS and saved an hour. That would have been good enough for me with the VFR conditions into a not busy airport with lots of options like Fresno if we needed to stop short.

Still, we made it in just under 4 hours of flying time with a 5,000 foot cabin, no vibration and quiet cabin so everyone got there fast but my butt was numb!

So, this is a marketing document and one needs to remember that. But when I look at the information beginning on page 23, and compare to other marketing documents from other manufacturers, along with pireps on these various airframes, gathered from owner's forums, BT and lots of articles, etc. it's all pretty much on the mark, at least in the rankings. It's an amazing combination of speed, efficiency, comfort and cost.

Typically, brokers say it's a seller's market when under 10% of the fleet is for sale. With only 7-10 airframes on the market right now and a couple hundred in the fleet, it makes sense to me that values are stable to rising.

Even if you're not thinking P180 for your next plane the presentation is very interesting. Thanks Daniele.

Jeez, I think I'm beginning to sound like Crandall...

oregon aero seat cushion. Have them for the PC12. You really notice when you not sitting on them.

I will have a REALLY difficult time migrating away from Garmin GX000, no matter what the bird can do on paper. I'm sure that's difficult for you as well, coming from Garmin on your last couple of birds.

Don,

PL21 is like DOS compared to Garmin which is more like Windows. The thinking behind how to do things in the system is like the difference in Windows and Apple. Both work, and are logical, but they take different paths.

PL21 isn't hard once you get the "logic" of use. It does some things better. I'm getting the hang of flying with it but it will be a while before I feel as confident as I did with Garmin. Going into KDFW last year with low level moderate turbulence, clouds, strong and strong wind shear and a plane load of people including one guy who had finally gotten the nerve up to fly in a small plane I got 3 runway and 4 approach changes in about 5 minutes when the autopilot couldn't hold the course. I had another pilot in the right seat who was supposed to be handling the avionics. I finally just had to knock his hand away and do everything myself. Much easier. As we came down the glideslope we were looking at the runway through the side windows. Crazy arrival. But you get those, especially when you're a bug smasher going into Class Bravo at rush hour. No question it'll be a while before I am proficient enought with Collins to be able to do that.