Yay! Back to a fun exercise. What is the annual budget? You can buy lots of old wide body jets for $1.5 to $1.7M. Or, why don't we take the ambiguity out of it and call it 200 (out and back twice per week, 50 weeks per year) 300NM trips and 24 (out and back once per month) 750NM trips, and we post our annual costs for our respective planes, not including capital costs or property taxes (as some don't have that cost), just has to be in the $1.5-1.7M purchase price range. I'll start it off at the bottom of the spectrum with a lowly Meridian. It'll do it, likely with a fuel stop, on at least half of the 750NM trips. My annual cost for such a mission (including insurance, pilot training, maintenance, engine reserves, subscriptions and hangar, but not including capital or property taxes) would be about 375 hours of flight time and about $175,000 to $195,000 depending on maintenance squawks.

Insurance - $15,000
Hangar - $10,000
Training - $3,000
Subscriptions - $2,000
Fuel - $75,000
Engine Reserves - $40,000
Maintenance - $30,000-$50,000

Who's next?

How is it you are doing so much better than the CJP posters?

CJ4 owner reported $492/hr.

CJ2 owner reported $466/hr.

What makes you special?

Mike C.

Yay! Back to a fun exercise. What is the annual budget? You can buy lots of old wide body jets for $1.5 to $1.7M. Or, why don't we take the ambiguity out of it and call it 200 (out and back twice per week, 50 weeks per year) 300NM trips and 24 (out and back once per month) 750NM trips, and we post our annual costs for our respective planes, not including capital costs or property taxes (as some don't have that cost), just has to be in the $1.5-1.7M purchase price range. I'll start it off at the bottom of the spectrum with a lowly Meridian. It'll do it, likely with a fuel stop, on at least half of the 750NM trips. My annual cost for such a mission (including insurance, pilot training, maintenance, engine reserves, subscriptions and hangar, but not including capital or property taxes) would be about 375 hours of flight time and about $175,000 to $195,000 depending on maintenance squawks.

Insurance - $15,000
Hangar - $10,000
Training - $3,000
Subscriptions - $2,000
Fuel - $75,000
Engine Reserves - $40,000
Maintenance - $30,000-$50,000

Who's next?

Shall we put an age cap on the airframe? When I was buying 20 years old was the oldest I was willing to consider.

For that I’d get a TBM 700c2

Destination and based runway lengths are a big part of this. Citation 501/550/560 or CJ1 series would fit the purchase budget but wouldn't work for shorter runways. For shorter runways it is hard to beat a TBM700C2/850, it has the range

I know the back and forth between Mike and I gets old, trust me when I say it does for me as well. I assure you that anyone who knows me personally or has picked up the phone and called me for advice, knows I’m not the jerk I sometimes appear to be on BT. I admit that Mike does bring out the worst in me and I should do better with not letting him get to me. On the other hand, he has questioned my integrity, my character, insinuated I take bribes from maintenance facilities and accused me of wasting my client’s money. All I’ve ever done is correct his inaccurate representations and point out that he’s a great researcher with limited real world experience.

When Mike first joined BT, I never had a problem with him, he droned on and on about the MU2, but whatever… then I became a BT sponsor and he found out that the rules were different for sponsors, it pissed him off and he began to grind the axe.

I try to start threads that are engaging and informative, for no other reason than I enjoy Beechtalk and like the fact that it’s a source of ACCURATE information for aircraft buyers. My career and passion is protecting aircraft buyers and when false or misleading information gets shared, I’m going to say something.

Mike goes to the minutiae to try to find something, some edge, some slight error I have made… I’m not perfect, but if I make a mistake or share inaccurate information, I will admit it, own it and apologize.

This trying to find some angle is what causes the back and forth, I’d encourage anyone who thinks I am wrong to go back and read this thread, you’ll see what I am talking about.

I am thankful Mike listened to me and bought a Citation V, they really are great airplanes. So are the CJ’s.

We have clients who own several 525’s, I’ll get some actual rates for TAP Blue and share them.

Fun fact, JetAcq has helped clients acquire more Citation V’s than any other model of jet. lest someone try again to paint me as someone who doesn’t like Legacy Citations.

Destination and based runway lengths are a big part of this. Citation 501/550/560 or CJ1 series would fit the purchase budget but wouldn't work for shorter runways. For shorter runways it is hard to beat a TBM700C2/850, it has the range

This is what we chose for that exact mission. Doesn't fall within your age range, but I think it will be tough to beat.

To be fair, I have zero history to prove my assumption, we'll see.

2024 Rates:

Mustang through Cessna Poweradvantage+: $418

Williams Tap Blue:

CJ: $418

CJ2: $464

CJ2+: $460

CJ3+: $470

I passed these rates on to our managed owners (6/10 are Williams owners), want to guess how many complained? Rhymes with hero, starts with a z.

-Gateway Jets / The Citation Jet Exchange

This is what we chose for that exact mission. Doesn't fall within your age range, but I think it will be tough to beat.

To be fair, I have zero history to prove my assumption, we'll see.

Thanks Corey! Appreciate the accurate data!

I don’t have anyone in a CJ4, but I’ll ask Crandall. Sounds like it may be the only Williams powered Citation at $500

CJ4 is $491.76

As Crandall pointed out, not as bad as last year. He echoes what Corey's clients have said, not a big deal, less than expected. He also said that any time he has an issue Williams sends the Cavalry, so he's happy with them.

Everything is going up, it’s just the reality of what we are experiencing economy wise.

We’re probably going to have to raise our fees, even though I have been extremely reluctant to do so, the fact is our cost have gone up, airfare, rental cars, and hotels are all way up, each trip I take now cost almost twice as much as it did. Insurance, rent and office expenses are all up.

The reality is you're lucky if today's dollar is .75 cents (compared to 2019)

It seems like I once said that our response to the Covid Pandemic was "The Costliest Mistake in History"

Well, we're paying that bill now.

I would find someone to take her for a ride in a P46T. Very good chance she changes her mind when she sees what climbing at 1500 fpm into smooth air in fully protected mostly weather free class A airspace, while in pressurized comfort, climbing faster than the SR22 cruises. I had an SR22 when We bought our Mirage. The family never wanted to get in the SR22 again. Kept it for a while, thinking I would use it on short trips, but was only flying to keep the engine healthy, so let it go.

Planes are only as safe as their pilot at the controls. But a turbine is far less likely to be the weak link in the accident chain. The Cirrus is a fine plane, but the capability, comfort and reliability of the turbine is quite a bit more than the Cirrus.

C441 Sal

Sal, I know you ideally said you didn't want a piston, but a really tricked out Aerostar will not only beat a KA90 in speed, it will offer all the comforts of a turbine at a piston price. I can honestly say I should have never sold my 601P and just kept it. But I also got bitten by the turbine bug.

Now, if you gotta go turbine, how about a Turbo Commander? Nice and roomy, speedy and not too bad on the wallet. I would say MU-2, but the reality is they're bit range challenged compared to a TC. A long wing Jetrop Turbo Commander, will easily duo 1500nm at 300kts with the -10's.