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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2020, 15:03 
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Joined: 07/11/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Agree fully, if it only didn’t have that whiney noise signature.


Yes, the constant whine, heard at airports when one taxis past....

"I wanna Avanti too!" :thumbup:


Worse is if you live under its approach flight path. But I would like to have one too.

Best,

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 14:12 
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Joined: 09/17/15
Posts: 163
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Location: LIMG / EDDK
Aircraft: PA-28 / C172
Hope you'll enjoy a recent picture of the Piaggio Test Aircraft with a special livery celebrating one million (well, the first one million!) of certified fleet flight hours:

Attachment:
image_2020-11-19_190429.png


This is P.180 S/N 1002. If you look closer, you can recognize the distinctive splitted windscreen of the first pre-series units and a nose air data boom used for RVSM tests and other calibrations.

This aircraft, born as an Avanti, has been retrofitted during it's life to Avanti II (PL21, engines) first and to EVO configuration later (winglets, scimitar propeller, Magnaghi Landing Gears, antiskid and new steering).

It is the test-bench for every new development.

Shoot in Genoa LIMJ.

Daniele


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 14:30 
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Joined: 07/11/14
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Location: 46U
Aircraft: C182, Lancair IV-P
Daniele,

Interesting pix; thanks for sharing.

Best,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 18:18 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
3 pax plus me, 1000 mile flight over a 24 hour period. At least for the Avanti 1, FL360 and FL350 are where the plane is happiest. Right around 600lbs an hour and 375 to 380kts. Have the music setup so pax can get XM if they want to put a headset on and I can stream from my phone.

Did an ILS in pretty windy conditions, was very impressed with AP ability to intercept and correct.

There is an STC that exists for Mach .70 MMO, not sure what has to do to get it, but I need to figure it out as I am getting darn close to the barber pole at cruise at FL350 when temps get to ISA. Be nice to go a little faster on the descents up high too.

I bought a car wash recently and now own a detail shop so I have access to tons of detailing products. I paint corrected and ceramic coated all leading edges and the nose and picked up 2 knots! I also sealed a few gaps where the front wing transitions to its cap. It's stunning how sensitive this plane is clean edges. I am working on some custom ceramic coating formulations, going to make a glass specific one and will post a link once it's for sale. It really makes your glass easier to wipe bugs off though. As an aside, it works great on car windows too, like mega strength RainX.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 18:27 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1800
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Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
3 pax plus me, 1000 mile flight over a 24 hour period. At least for the Avanti 1, FL360 and FL350 are where the plane is happiest. Right around 600lbs an hour and 375 to 380kts. Have the music setup so pax can get XM if they want to put a headset on and I can stream from my phone.

Did an ILS in pretty windy conditions, was very impressed with AP ability to intercept and correct.

There is an STC that exists for Mach .70 MMO, not sure what has to do to get it, but I need to figure it out as I am getting darn close to the barber pole at cruise at FL350 when temps get to ISA. Be nice to go a little faster on the descents up high too.

I bought a car wash recently and now own a detail shop so I have access to tons of detailing products. I paint corrected and ceramic coated all leading edges and the nose and picked up 2 knots! I also sealed a few gaps where the front wing transitions to its cap. It's stunning how sensitive this plane is clean edges. I am working on some custom ceramic coating formulations, going to make a glass specific one and will post a link once it's for sale. It really makes your glass easier to wipe bugs off though. As an aside, it works great on car windows too, like mega strength RainX.


Thanks for sharing about your avanti!
Always wanted to own a car wash, ones by me seem to print money. Take enough of my wife’s anyway. Checked one out got a little intimidated learning the environmental stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 18:31 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Anthony,

The Avanti is HIGHLY dependent upon laminar flow for its performance. It has extensive laminar flow on the canard, fuselage and wings - up to 50%+, which is an exceptionally high % of laminar flow. When everything is clean, it works just as advertised but the slightest imperfections of paint, dirt, rain or bugs can disturb the laminar flow. I was talking to a couple of Avanti pilots who told me that when flying it in rain, it behaves much differently when the canard (the primary pitch surface) gets wet and laminar flow is disturbed. Have you experienced this as well?

This isn't what makes the Avanti bad - it's what makes it good. You just have to know that it's more sensitive compared to a less laminar dependent bird.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 21:34 
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It slows down a little in the cloud and precip and if you are hand flying you can feel the nose lose a hint of lift as you enter moisture as the front wing loses laminar flow.

That said, you really only notice if you are looking for it. All pretty imperceptible.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 21:38 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Anthony,

The Avanti is HIGHLY dependent upon laminar flow for its performance. It has extensive laminar flow on the canard, fuselage and wings - up to 50%+, which is an exceptionally high % of laminar flow. When everything is clean, it works just as advertised but the slightest imperfections of paint, dirt, rain or bugs can disturb the laminar flow. I was talking to a couple of Avanti pilots who told me that when flying it in rain, it behaves much differently when the canard (the primary pitch surface) gets wet and laminar flow is disturbed. Have you experienced this as well?

This isn't what makes the Avanti bad - it's what makes it good. You just have to know that it's more sensitive compared to a less laminar dependent bird.


I have not noticed it at all in rain, but then I'm not the sensitive type! I have noticed that it isn't as bumpy flying through big cumulus as the TBM was.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 22:54 
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Joined: 07/05/09
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Company: Waypoint Lighting
Location: Austin, TX (KGTU)
Aircraft: '65 Deb C33
Username Protected wrote:
A lap through a hangar at Georgetown spotted this beauty. Stunning! :drool:

Today @ KGTU. It’s a total distraction when it passes my hangar.


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Leave it better than you found it.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2020, 09:16 
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Joined: 09/17/15
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IIRC Piaggio SB for Mach 0.7 only require update of the copilot Airspeed Indicator P/N and a different strapping of the ADC-85 Air Data Computer.

Pretty easy to accomplish.

Daniele


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2020, 09:43 
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Joined: 12/16/09
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Location: Houston, TX
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How many Evo's are in service?

Anyone know a Houston based operator (I may go submit a resume for baggage hanlder)

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2020, 10:54 
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Joined: 11/30/12
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Username Protected wrote:
It slows down a little in the cloud and precip and if you are hand flying you can feel the nose lose a hint of lift as you enter moisture as the front wing loses laminar flow.

That said, you really only notice if you are looking for it. All pretty imperceptible.

How is the canard de-iced? I don't see a boot or a metal leading edge.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2020, 10:58 
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Joined: 09/17/15
Posts: 163
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Location: LIMG / EDDK
Aircraft: PA-28 / C172
Username Protected wrote:
It slows down a little in the cloud and precip and if you are hand flying you can feel the nose lose a hint of lift as you enter moisture as the front wing loses laminar flow.

That said, you really only notice if you are looking for it. All pretty imperceptible.

How is the canard de-iced? I don't see a boot or a metal leading edge.


Electric Heater

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2020, 12:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
How is the canard de-iced? I don't see a boot or a metal leading edge.


Electric Heater

Daniele-

I don't know if anyone has said this, but I appreciate having you and your extensive Piaggio knowledge here. Thanks for taking the time to share. Short of a Gulfstream, the P180 is my dream plane.
_________________
Jay


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2020, 12:41 
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Joined: 09/17/15
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Location: LIMG / EDDK
Aircraft: PA-28 / C172
Many thanks Jay.

Although I can't comment on real world performances and operational issues, having been involved in the most significant technical updates of the last years gave me a good knowledge of the entire aircraft.

I'm into the helicopter world now, and I miss the P.180 soooo much!

Daniele


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