04 Dec 2025, 07:05 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 14 Nov 2020, 16:55 |
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Joined: 01/22/11 Posts: 9 Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti II
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Username Protected wrote: Hmm, its well past that serial cut-off but I don't see them so perhaps all my photos are just missing the right angle. If I get an updated picture, I'll posted it for future reference. They are in a side pocket that has a cover over them in the cabin.
We have S/N 1172 and they are in the pockets next to the cabin table doors. I didn't think they were standard as every aircraft I've looked at, the outlets are in different physical locations. In our cockpit, they put them directly below the headphone jacks which is very inconvenient. We replaced one of our clocks with the Mid-Continent MD93 unit. It's a much better setup if all you need is USB power.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 14 Nov 2020, 18:56 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8730 Post Likes: +9457 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: We replaced one of our clocks with the Mid-Continent MD93 unit. It's a much better setup if all you need is USB power. I wish I had known that. I had to replace both my clocks and did with what was OEM.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 14 Nov 2020, 23:21 |
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Joined: 01/22/11 Posts: 9 Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti II
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Username Protected wrote: I wish I had known that. I had to replace both my clocks and did with what was OEM. It's a fairly new SB (80-0477). Came out less than a year ago.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 14:58 |
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Joined: 05/24/20 Posts: 182 Post Likes: +143 Company: Yes
Aircraft: Bonanza P35 IO-550B
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Username Protected wrote: I think Piaggio in many ways misunderstood their own market.
And to understand why, you have to understand that they come from a distinctively European point of view. The reality is that in Europe, the owner-flown private aircraft owner that uses it for business is a very rare thing. This was never designed for that. Piaggio designed this to be an alternative to 2-crew flown jets in commercial/official capacities. The fact that it was certified as single pilot is almost by accident and not something that would become as important as it did (in fact, this type is almost always crewed with 2 pilots in European capacities, showing you that they were not clued in to its USP).
I think they thought the market was twofold: as a more efficient alternative to 2-crew business jets in the US, and as a government/military/medevac planes in Europe. On paper that looks like a substantial market.
But.
They didn't account for these facts:
1. Optics. Rich people spending $7 mill, would rather not turn up in "the little propeller plane" when their competition turns up in a jet. It may seem silly, but these things matter for that clientele.
2. It was over-priced when you take point 1 into account. Piaggio's point of view was always: "well, it's as fast as a jet, so should be priced as one". No, because the optics are different.
3. It had a maintenance schedule clearly designed for institutional users or big fleets - once again showing its European provenance.
If Piaggio would simply have targeted the owner-flown market or the SP business plane owners from the get-go, I believe they would have been very successful. That's where this plane belongs. And now after 30 years on the market and compressed used prices, that's where its finding its market. They just didn't know what they had on their hands - they were trying to sell something it wasn't.
Like Anthony said, if I was CEO for Piaggio, I'd implement a swift re-certification with a Garmin G3000 panel for the EVO, get rid of most calendar items, push even harder on the "Ferrari of the Sky" marketing and target only owner-flown or smaller business owners that would otherwise be looking at SETP's and VLJ's etc. That's its market. It's rare to find those who understand the airplane and the Piaggio America mindset. Piaggio America was responsible for targeting the wrong market in the USA. Placing ad's in GQ magazine for $250K, Flying six hours to demonstrate the airplane to an owner of a C-182... I could go on. Hiring unqualified CEO's and CEO's who were dismal failures everywhere else they worked handicapped the business greatly. The airplane sells itself to those who are qualified to own it and can afford slightly higher ownership costs than the King Air fleet. Being 100 kts faster than King Air, being able to overfly weather and having a fat cabin for mom and or clients. When people understand why the airplane is shaped the way it is and why the propellers are properly oriented facing aft the attitude toward optics is often changed. Piaggio America was forced to follow a lot of the Italian mindset about marketing and sales (The high entry sales price) and frankly here in North America that hurt sales. There was also a belief (in Piaggio America) that the North American sales could not survive without a Fractional Company as a customer. I never agreed with that but my opinions often fell on deaf ears. I love the airplane and when I went to work for Piaggio America I told my boss this would be my last flying job. I planned to finish my career conducting the post completion test flights, demonstrating the airplane to worthy prospective buyers and growing with the airplane through its slow but awesome improvements. I was the chief pilot for 7 of my 8 years there. I quit flying abruptly in December of 2009 knowing the fast decline and implosion of the Piaggio adventure was near. I have several thousand hours in King Airs, a few hundred in a Hawker and about three thousand in P-180's and the Avanti is by far the best airplane I have ever had the pleasure to fly. ...including my little P35 Bonanza.
_________________ You can get everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 15:09 |
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Joined: 05/24/20 Posts: 182 Post Likes: +143 Company: Yes
Aircraft: Bonanza P35 IO-550B
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Username Protected wrote: Doh! We've been colleagues for about one year...  I have fond memories. I hope you are well. I still speak to Nicoletta once in a while. I will send her a note. 
_________________ You can get everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 15:18 |
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Joined: 09/17/15 Posts: 163 Post Likes: +165 Location: LIMG / EDDK
Aircraft: PA-28 / C172
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Username Protected wrote: Doh! We've been colleagues for about one year...  I have fond memories. I hope you are well. I still speak to Nicoletta once in a while. I will send her a note. 
I've started in Finale Ligure in 2008, Avionics Engineer. Been in US many times from 2012 to 2016. Left the company in 2018. Wife still work there in Customer Support dept. Agree that some upper managers, both here and there, were unfit... I cross the fingers for her and for the plane.
Ciao
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Nov 2020, 20:17 |
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Joined: 07/11/14 Posts: 1474 Post Likes: +424 Location: 46U
Aircraft: C182, Lancair IV-P
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Username Protected wrote: A great product cannot be held down. I have been I involved in aviation since the age of 15 flying everything under the sun from single engine pistons to transport category airliners for American to helicopters to warbirds to aerobatic airplanes.... the gamut of aviation...
I can say without hesitation that this underproduced badly marketed funny looking turboprop is easily AVIATIONS BEST KEPT SECRET.
What it does, and how it does it through it’s superior aerodynamics and forward thinking design is unreplicated in aviation even today. Agree fully, if it only didn’t have that whiney noise signature. Best, Tom
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Nov 2020, 21:42 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8730 Post Likes: +9457 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: A great product cannot be held down. I have been I involved in aviation since the age of 15 flying everything under the sun from single engine pistons to transport category airliners for American to helicopters to warbirds to aerobatic airplanes.... the gamut of aviation...
I can say without hesitation that this underproduced badly marketed funny looking turboprop is easily AVIATIONS BEST KEPT SECRET.
What it does, and how it does it through it’s superior aerodynamics and forward thinking design is unreplicated in aviation even today. Agree fully, if it only didn’t have that whiney noise signature. Best, Tom
You know it's not even noticeable from the cockpit...
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 18 Nov 2020, 10:34 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7098 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: A great product cannot be held down. I have been I involved in aviation since the age of 15 flying everything under the sun from single engine pistons to transport category airliners for American to helicopters to warbirds to aerobatic airplanes.... the gamut of aviation...
I can say without hesitation that this underproduced badly marketed funny looking turboprop is easily AVIATIONS BEST KEPT SECRET.
What it does, and how it does it through it’s superior aerodynamics and forward thinking design is unreplicated in aviation even today. It's interesting in that I think it's great now with the price point being where it is. I wish more aviation companies were run by smart airplane owners. Would be fun to see what transpires.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 18 Nov 2020, 11:40 |
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Joined: 01/12/10 Posts: 578 Post Likes: +1072 Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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Username Protected wrote: A great product cannot be held down. I have been I involved in aviation since the age of 15 flying everything under the sun from single engine pistons to transport category airliners for American to helicopters to warbirds to aerobatic airplanes.... the gamut of aviation...
I can say without hesitation that this underproduced badly marketed funny looking turboprop is easily AVIATIONS BEST KEPT SECRET.
What it does, and how it does it through it’s superior aerodynamics and forward thinking design is unreplicated in aviation even today. Agree fully, if it only didn’t have that whiney noise signature. Best, Tom
What noise signature? Can’t hear anything like that in the cockpit...
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 18 Nov 2020, 13:44 |
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Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 9049 Post Likes: +2086
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Username Protected wrote: Agree fully, if it only didn’t have that whiney noise signature.
Yes, the constant whine, heard at airports when one taxis past.... "I wanna Avanti too!" 
_________________ A person with no regrets, has a bad memory.
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