This plane is finally getting recognized for what it can deliver.

Mark, the only thing a PC12 does better than the P180 is it can fly farther non-stop. So can the C441.

What is your real world max range trip (no wind) that you'll fly, assuming IFR conditions?

Other than that, I agree. Why would you pay the same or more for a jet with a smaller cabin and slower cruise speed?

Mark, the only thing a PC12 does better than the P180 is it can fly farther non-stop. So can the C441.

What is your real world max range trip (no wind) that you'll fly, assuming IFR conditions?

Other than that, I agree. Why would you pay the same or more for a jet with a smaller cabin and slower cruise speed?

Range can be pretty variable. I did a trip from OKC to the west coast a few weeks ago with a 40 knot average headwind. Started with 2650 lbs (pressure fueling from the truck didn't get it all the way full and didn't figure it out til engine start - rookie mistake) and had to divert finally short of destination. Still flew a bit over 1100 NM. Landed with over 500 lbs. If I'd had the full fuel load I would have made it all the way which is a bit over 1200 NM with approach.

I did adjust power settings to fly somewhere less than max cruise. Today's FF profile shows that same trip doable at max cruise with 45 knots headwind and landing with 600 lbs.

Flying back from Florida a couple weeks ago against headwinds from 75-95 knots we did 1100 nm and landed with 550 lbs. Given the conditions on landing I wouldn't have wanted to go further.

So, I think no wind range is a bit better than Mark says (maybe 1250-1350), but you never get "no wind" so going west you do need a plan B.

If you go through POH, you'll see that if you give up speed, they're capable of almost 1900nm with no reserves, or about 15-1600nm with a healthy IFR reserve. Yeah, nobody buys an Avanti to cruise along at 280kts, but if you factor in the time to descent from FL350 or whatever, fuel her up and to get back up to FL350, I bet you you will save time doing 280kts without a stop.

But agreed, at full speed they are a little short legged. And the aux tank installation is just not cost effective to just get another 60gal.

Adam,

At 280 you’d be passing the PC 12 with ease.

It will go further than a pc12, you just have to pull it waaay back. You might as well go fast and stop. Door to door times are the same. You didn’t buy this plane to go 300kts!

Full tilt it’s a 1300-1400nm plane. I have done that multiple times now.

Routing matters. Fuel burn is really high down low. Also, you slow down a lot down low. You are slumming it at 260ias like all the other tprops but your fuel burn is higher.

For those that want to get really technical, see attached charts.

That's one reason I went for the B200. My first trip was 1400 nm, and I landed with about 2 hours of fuel.

The other reason was that I can't afford a P180.

I've spent some time looking at b200s...not sure they are much cheaper than p180.

I second that.

That's one reason I went for the B200. My first trip was 1400 nm, and I landed with about 2 hours of fuel.

The other reason was that I can't afford a P180.

Well, if they're equal, and I can buy a B200 for less...then the B200 is cheaper to own.

Let's start with talking about buying one. Once we figure out the difference in sticker price, we can figure out how quickly the P180 pays for itself.

I'm not trying to bash it - it's an amazing plane. But you pay for what you get. There's no free lunch.

Thanks for posting the POH info, Anthony - are those charts for the Avanti 1 or Avanti 2?

What's the approximate cost to upgrade to the Garmin panel in an Avanti 1? I seem to recall that was something like 200k, and the gear overhauls are about 200-250?

And generally speaking, what are the hourly DOCs/reserves for these aircraft?

I've been considering a couple of light jets but the range limits (1100-1200 nm max) are of some concern because that's right where my missions lie (e.g., Houston to PHL, SAN, LAS) ... the extra 200-300 nm of the Piaggio are attractive, but it seems like it is a higher operating cost option, given the inspection schedules, gear overhauls, etc....

Strange how this thread on BeechTalk is the best online resource for the Piaggio!

Cheers

I have a current market report from my broker so I know there are plenty of Avanti under 1.5m. I'm not sure if I should share his work publically but happy to do so privately.

For an Avanti 1 there are 8 all below 1.5m and most in the 800-1m range. Those are Avanti I.
For Avanti II there are 5 right at the 1.5m and another 4 just under 1.7m.

When comparing avionics and TAF etc, the prices were pretty comparable. Certainly, you have more B200 in the marketplace and a much wider range of age and condition etc. but for a comparable 2000s with updated avionics they are pretty much spot on.

Well, if they're equal, and I can buy a B200 for less...then the B200 is cheaper to own.

Let's start with talking about buying one. Once we figure out the difference in sticker price, we can figure out how quickly the P180 pays for itself.

I'm not trying to bash it - it's an amazing plane. But you pay for what you get. There's no free lunch.