21 Nov 2025, 10:38 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421  Posted: 13 Jun 2016, 22:49 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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You can get a great 421 or a bottom end TP for 300k-400k.
If purchase price is the main driver then go with the 421. They are great planes.
I had a 421B for 5 years only paid 230k for it and it had g600 and waas.
In hindsight I should have bought a TP first. But purchase price was not the main consideration for me. I was concerned with how much I would use it.
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 13 Jun 2016, 22:57 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20751
Post Likes: +26230
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: TPE-331 -10: 5000 hrs(2500 HSI):
$400,000 OH, $50,000 HSI: $450,000= $90/hr $400K for an OH is quite a bit more than the numbers I've seen. A -10 overhauls for about $250K from what I've been told. That would lower hourly reserve costs to about $60/hour which jibes with the engine programs you can buy. Quote: Fuel is more or less a wash with lower Jet-A prices and faster TP speeds Generally less for fuel. GTSIO-520L: 45 GPH at $4.50, $202/hour, 210 knots, $0.96/nm. TPE331-10: 75 GPH at $3.00, $225/hour, 290 knots, $0.77/nm. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 13 Jun 2016, 22:59 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20751
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: ...the second half with glass. I have no intention of going back. Install G600. Every plane can have all the glass you want. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 13 Jun 2016, 23:50 |
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Joined: 02/05/15
Posts: 381
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Location: KSLC
Aircraft: Divorced: AC690A-10
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Username Protected wrote: You can get a great 421 or a bottom end TP for 300k-400k.
Does 'bottom end' mean steam gauges and worn leather or a mechanically tired ship? I don't mean high time, that's fine. I mean neglected.
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 13 Jun 2016, 23:53 |
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6652
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
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Username Protected wrote: Does 'bottom end' mean steam gauges and worn leather or a mechanically tired ship? I don't mean high time, that's fine. I mean neglected. Steam most certainly, worn interior probably, and OK mechanically, but could use a little updating.
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 14 Jun 2016, 16:33 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13630
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Company: 320 Fam
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Username Protected wrote: I've put an enormous amount of baggage in my short body MU2 (which seems unlikely at first glance) and the long body can hold quite a bit more. Attachment: mu2-baggage-2.png Mike C. You and I define "enormous" differently. In my old 421 (baggage areas only). The small pile is what did not fit in the nose and went in the aft baggage. 4 sets of skis in the long bag. 6 PAX
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 14 Jun 2016, 16:44 |
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Joined: 03/01/14
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
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You should see how much of that kind of "stuff" will go in and out of a Gulfstream. "Hey Mike, Hand me that piano."
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 14 Jun 2016, 17:21 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13630
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Company: 320 Fam
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Username Protected wrote: You should see how much of that kind of "stuff" will go in and out of a Gulfstream. "Hey Mike, Hand me that piano." I bet that's true. Not sure its relevant for us bug smashers though...
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 14 Jun 2016, 18:18 |
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Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5836
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Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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I absolutely detest the X dollars/hr. conversations. Jason C. has the best formula and one that I have adopted.
I figure my first hour of flying my 340 each year will be about $25k. That includes annual,maintenance, insurance, training, charts, ect. After that, it is about $200/hr for fuel.
A 414 will be the same price, since they are virtually the same except for cabin size.
A 421 will have the slightly added cost of the geared engines, but all else will be similar.
My first annual was over $80k, but we were fixing a lot of deferred items and upgrading others.
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 14 Jun 2016, 18:38 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
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Company: 320 Fam
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Username Protected wrote: Someone still has to load and unload :D Yes. I'm the hired hand in our hangar...
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 14 Jun 2016, 19:01 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
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Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Cargo compartment for my Commander 70 cubic ft. Easily holds the contents of a F-150.
I am laying flat and am 6ft 1in.
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 15 Jun 2016, 08:17 |
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Joined: 12/15/10
Posts: 595
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Location: Burlington VT KBTV
Aircraft: C441 N441WD
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Username Protected wrote: TPE-331 -10: 5000 hrs(2500 HSI):
$400,000 OH, $50,000 HSI: $450,000= $90/hr $400K for an OH is quite a bit more than the numbers I've seen. A -10 overhauls for about $250K from what I've been told. That would lower hourly reserve costs to about $60/hour which jibes with the engine programs you can buy. Quote: Fuel is more or less a wash with lower Jet-A prices and faster TP speeds Generally less for fuel. GTSIO-520L: 45 GPH at $4.50, $202/hour, 210 knots, $0.96/nm. TPE331-10: 75 GPH at $3.00, $225/hour, 290 knots, $0.77/nm. Mike C.
Here's a OH quote we received last year when shopping for 441's. More in line with my 400K estimate:
FOR BUDGETARY PURPOSES AND BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE LAST EIGHT (8) CONQUEST DASH TEN ENGINE OVERHAULS WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, YOUR COST COULD BE AS STATED BELOW. YOUR ENGINE MUST BE IN A RUNNING, JUST OFF WING CONDITION TO BE ACCEPTED FOR THIS FLAT RATE OVERHAUL. MISSING ITEMS AND SCRAP ITEMS NOTED ABOVE ARE EXTRA.
IN MY OPINION, A BUDGETARY OVERHAUL COST FOR P-31358 AND P-31362 BASED ON THE INFORMATION SUPPLIED COULD BE AS FOLLOWED:
• $182,000.00 FOR P-31358 (flat rate less LRU’s that are not being overhauled)
o This includes overhauling the engine
o This does not include overhauling the following LRU’s
▪ Fuel Control…2,554 hours remaining (client option)
▪ Prop Governor…2,324 hours remaining (client option)
o This does not include the replacement of the following units that may or may not pass inspection and may not be required.
▪ 1st stage impeller ($15-20K for cycle continued)
▪ 1st stage turbine wheel blades ($35,862.50)
▪ 3rd stage turbine wheel ($16,171.92 for new)
• low cycles remaining
o This does not include installing the new style plenum ($17,624.00 extra)
• 192,000.00 FOR P-31362 (flat rate less LRU’s that are not being overhauled)
o This includes overhauling the engine
o This does not include overhauling all the LRU’s
▪ Prop Governor…1,997 hours remaining (client option)
o This does not include the replacement of the following units that may or may not pass inspection and may not be required.
▪ 1st stage impeller ($15-20K for cycle continued)
▪ 1st stage turbine wheel blades ($35,862.50)
▪ 3rd stage turbine wheel ($16,171.92 for new)
• Low cycles remaining
o This does not include installing the new style plenum ($17,624.00 extra)
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Post subject: Re: Price point between 414 v 421 Posted: 15 Jun 2016, 09:34 |
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Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1561
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Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
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Username Protected wrote: TPE-331 -10: 5000 hrs(2500 HSI):
$400,000 OH, $50,000 HSI: $450,000= $90/hr $400K for an OH is quite a bit more than the numbers I've seen. A -10 overhauls for about $250K from what I've been told. That would lower hourly reserve costs to about $60/hour which jibes with the engine programs you can buy. Quote: Fuel is more or less a wash with lower Jet-A prices and faster TP speeds Generally less for fuel. GTSIO-520L: 45 GPH at $4.50, $202/hour, 210 knots, $0.96/nm. TPE331-10: 75 GPH at $3.00, $225/hour, 290 knots, $0.77/nm. Mike C.
I think he was talking BOTH engines for $450k.
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