BeechTalk - BT - The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 17:38

Username Protected wrote:

I am interested in the plane, but :

It is not as roomy as the Eclipse. (I love Crandall, but he doesn't know what he is talking about on this one

)

I do not believe the speed/range numbers are realistic.

Has only one engine which will be burning a ton of fuel down low.

Speaking of flying low, one of the nice things about a jet is flying at FL400 and FL410 above 99% of the weather while all the turboprops are diverting around buildups everywhere getting the hell beat out of them.

I think the Vision is cool for a guy whose perfect plane would be an SR22, but he wants to be able to say, 'Let's take the jet.'

Until we can see one in the flesh, there's not much to debate. Who know what the numbers will be but I have been inside both planes.

As for 41K....... If you're not above it at 25K you're not gonna be above it at 41K.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 17:41

Username Protected wrote:

That has not been my experience.

I'd love to know your experience. I've asked you many times but you always avoid the question....

I'm 2000TT
IFR, ME

How about you?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 17:47

Username Protected wrote:

As for 41K....... If you're not above it at 25K you're not gonna be above it at 41K.

You are way off here. There is A TON of crap out there with tops in the 30s that I fly right on above sipping coffee while TP guys are asking for 20 left and knocking their heads on the cabin.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 17:50

Username Protected wrote:

You are way off here. There is TONS of crap out there with tops in the 30s that I fly right on above sipping coffee while TP guys are asking for 20 left and knocking their heads on the cabin.

Anything I've diverted around, everyone was diverting around. But it's a "he said she said".

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 17:56

Username Protected wrote:

That has not been my experience.

I'd love to know your experience. I've asked you many times but you always avoid the question....

I'm 2000TT
IFR, ME

How about you?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:02

Username Protected wrote:

Fighter pilot.

I know. As I've said before, I'm sure you can fly an F18 better than anyone. But how much real cross country, coast to coast, Canada to southern Caribbean time do you have. That's all I have. I've never flown an F18.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:06

We get tops reports all the time of mid 20's to low 30's. Plus the time I've jump seated in various airline cockpits teaches you that if you can fly in the 40's you deviate little compared to folks stuck in the 20's.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:06

Username Protected wrote:

Fighter pilot.

I know. As I've said before, I'm sure you can fly an F18 better than anyone. But how much real cross country, coast to coast, Canada to southern Caribbean time do you have. That's all I have. I've never flown an F18.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:18

Guys,

I think there is way to much over thinking this.
If you are flying an SR22 and want an incremental step up in plane; what requirements do you have?
-- Faster
-- Pressurization
-- Range
-- Payload and cargo

In each category, the SF50 makes a incremental jump over the SR22. Note enough of a jump to require months of training, but an incremental jump in each category.

Skipping the whole new/old debate. The number of planes in the incremental jump up category are rather limited. e.g. Meridian...

The Eclipse, TBM, PC12 and KA are much more expensive and even more capable. They are fundamentally in a different category.

As for the 25K MSL Service Ceiling, that makes certification much easier. And jet engines like all engines can be tuned for specific altitude ranges to achieve optimal efficiency. We are just used to thinking of Turbofans beeing tuned for high altitudes. When you see the numbers Cirrus has been getting, I think it is likely they have had the engine tuned for lower altitudes.

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:22

Username Protected wrote:

[I'd love to know your experience. I've asked you many times but you always avoid the question....

I'm 2000TT
IFR, ME

How about you?

Fighter pilot.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:24

Username Protected wrote:

How do you think we get the planes across the country for training? How do you think we maintain IFR proficiency? How do you think we train students? Hell, the transit to a kill box in Afghanistan from the boat could be upwards of a 1.5 hour XC.

One needn't have even a tenth of your hours to know that your statement is wrong, but those 200 hours need to be in a jet capable of 410.

Get in a plane that tops 410, and you will find that it can matter in many cases.

I've flown in lots of planes that top 41K. I also think you're still dancing around the question I asked a couple posts ago.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:29

Username Protected wrote:

Fighter pilot.

I know. As I've said before, I'm sure you can fly an F18 better than anyone. But how much real cross country, coast to coast, Canada to southern Caribbean time do you have. That's all I have. I've never flown an F18.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:29

Most fighter pilots used to be lucky to accumulate 200 hrs. per year. I would interview fighter pilots for a civilian flying job after their 6 year commitment that would have less than 1500 hours total. No doubt though it was quality time.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:30

Username Protected wrote:

How do you think we get the planes across the country for training? How do you think we maintain IFR proficiency? How do you think we train students? Hell, the transit to a kill box in Afghanistan from the boat could be upwards of a 1.5 hour XC.

One needn't have even a tenth of your hours to know that your statement is wrong, but those 200 hours need to be in a jet capable of 410.

Get in a plane that tops 410, and you will find that it can matter in many cases.

I've flown in lots of planes that top 41K. I also think you're still dancing around the question I asked a couple posts ago.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Oct 2013, 18:31

I am also staying out of this, but man this really could be good.

I am talking great, like in a "beat down" or flame out sort of way.

Remember boys, no personal attacks, no cheap kidney shots, all just good clean combat.

"Let's get ready to RUMBLE".