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11 May 2025, 21:37 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:27 
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Another big plus nobody has mentioned is it was actually designed around crash survivability. This was one of the primary thoughts put into the design long before the latest glass stuff. The seats are actually installed on a very strong rail system, the seat bottoms have honeycomb material to absorb impacts, the seat backs are designed NOT to collapse or fold over, they installed 4 point harnesses when the nay sayers stated the marketet when not go for them because they were not comfortable, then they were the first to add the air restraint systems, the cabin is designed to protect the occupants.

I have maintained these since the early 80's. They are like any other plane. The early models were a pain to work on, but improvements have made them better. There are some newer ones that look like a POS because they are not taken care of and there are older ones that are cream puffs because they are well cared for.

The big thing is Cirrus' market plan is to have something new every year just like the automotive industry that will continue to increase sales.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
The XC market is the ONLY market. Everything else is a "jet ski".


Bingo.

I own a 421 since it's a great cross country airplane for business and pleasure travel. Same reason Jason owns his PC12 (which I'd own in a second, but I can't justify the cost delta from the 421...Yet!).

I also fly cubs and warbirds, but those are basically toys. There's no justification for them, they are just fun to fly. Nothing wrong with that, but aviation will grow with the sale of tools not toys.

The Cirrus is a great product - I only have an hour in one, but I was suitably impressed. For regional cross country travel they are a wonderful solution.

The parachute is also the best marketing invention ever. MANY Cirri have been sold simply because the spouse said "I want the one with the parachute".

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cirrus as a XC business plane??? Too slow, too small. I know in my business I need speed and some space. I wouldn't want to take 10hrs. flying coast to coast. I can do that on the airlines in more comfort than in a Cirrus.
I think the Cirrus is geared at the entry level personal pilot...parachute, fixed gear, glass ...Cirrus has made flying a whole lot safer and simpler. No doubt they are leap years ahead of Beech in innovation. Beech hasn't innovated anything in decades.
That said I bought my little Baron for short commutes from San Diego - LA and enjoyment. The last thing I wanted was to push buttons. So I looked at the best "hand flying" airplanes. If I'm just pushing buttons I'd rather be in the back of the airplane napping or being productive.
Their next step should be a roomy 6-place, complex, pressurized, turbine or diesel 300kts+.


It's nothing but a XC business plane, beats the airlines for any trips within a 500NM radius, IMHO.

It is not an entry level pilot aircraft - critical wing demands short final speeds of 80 knots. In fact it's the entry level pilots that have had expensive prop-strike accidents on landings making the Cirrus one of the only piston planes that require annual training for insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:33 
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Joined: 11/24/11
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Username Protected wrote:
I used my TN Bonanza as a business airplane for 4 years and 1000hours. No commercial for me.

How can you say it's NOT a business airplane when it's 99% businesses buying them?


I was referring to my personal situation...needing to travel coast to coast. If your business is within 500nm even 1000nm then it works. As far as Cirrus sales being 99% business I have no data on that but if accurate I'm guessing that includes flight schools.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
I used my TN Bonanza as a business airplane for 4 years and 1000hours. No commercial for me.

How can you say it's NOT a business airplane when it's 99% businesses buying them?


I was referring to my personal situation...needing to travel coast to coast. If your business is within 500nm even 1000nm then it works. As far as Cirrus sales being 99% business I have no data on that but if accurate I'm guessing that includes flight schools.

Nobody is learning to fly in an SR22. C'mon!

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
I used my TN Bonanza as a business airplane for 4 years and 1000hours. No commercial for me.

How can you say it's NOT a business airplane when it's 99% businesses buying them?


I was referring to my personal situation...needing to travel coast to coast. If your business is within 500nm even 1000nm then it works. As far as Cirrus sales being 99% business I have no data on that but if accurate I'm guessing that includes flight schools.


I think Jason's spot-on with his comments, here.

The business traveler who has to connect to get where he or she is headed will very frequently be able to beat the airline times with a Cirrus, Bo, whatever. Throw in inclement weather at the hub, and you're really hosed. There have been several times when I could have beaten the airline's time home from California in my Bo - when they cancel your flight to the hub airport, you just joined another 200+ schmucks similarly affected. The delay is then measured in days, not hours.

Beech could easily compete here; question is, whether they have the vision to do so.
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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:37 
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I will wait until I see a 10 year old plastic Cirrus compared to a ten year old Baron or Bonanza. So, far the older Cirrus I have seen with a some hours on them look like a POS. Maybe they should just call them the throw away plane. :scratch:


You should have looked at my 10 year old Cirrus last week Russ! it still looks new in every aspect. Like every airplane, if you baby it and hangar it the results will show.

There are exceptions to every rule. :D Your plane looks immaculate. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:42 
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Location: Ellijay,Ga (N Ga Mts)
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Jason--As a somewhat 'newby' here I may be the only guy who does not know your company name and product.
WHAT is your line of business?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
It is not an entry level pilot aircraft - critical wing demands short final speeds of 80 knots. In fact it's the entry level pilots that have had expensive prop-strike accidents on landings making the Cirrus one of the only piston planes that require annual training for insurance.


I was not aware of the insurance requirement Alejandro. But around here there are flight schools that use Cirrus exclusively. OTOH I don't know any flight schools that use Bonanzas exclusively, except for Lufthansa's in-house training.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jason--As a somewhat 'newby' here I may be the only guy who does not know your company name and product.
WHAT is your line of business?

Why would I answer this question on a public forum? :D

Why would you ask?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cirrus as a XC business plane??? Too slow, too small. I know in my business I need speed and some space. I wouldn't want to take 10hrs. flying coast to coast. I can do that on the airlines in more comfort than in a Cirrus.
I think the Cirrus is geared at the entry level personal pilot...parachute, fixed gear, glass ...Cirrus has made flying a whole lot safer and simpler. No doubt they are leap years ahead of Beech in innovation. Beech hasn't innovated anything in decades.
That said I bought my little Baron for short commutes from San Diego - LA and enjoyment. The last thing I wanted was to push buttons. So I looked at the best "hand flying" airplanes. If I'm just pushing buttons I'd rather be in the back of the airplane napping or being productive.
Their next step should be a roomy 6-place, complex, pressurized, turbine or diesel 300kts+.


It's nothing but a XC business plane, beats the airlines for any trips within a 500NM radius, IMHO.

It is not an entry level pilot aircraft - critical wing demands short final speeds of 80 knots. In fact it's the entry level pilots that have had expensive prop-strike accidents on landings making the Cirrus one of the only piston planes that require annual training for insurance.


Does your little Baron or the Airlines beat the Cirri door-to-door?

The MPG of the SE airplane are very hard to beat, or just can't be beat.

A reliable 2 + 4 airplane would kill in this market.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:52 
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Nobody is learning to fly in an SR22. C'mon!


I guess the local flight school then is a huge scam:
[Link]http://iflycoast.com[/Link]


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:56 
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Jason---You are young and have made it big enought to afford nice airplanes and I'm happy for you.

I thought you had talked about your business in earlier posts I had not read so I thought I would just ask.

I didn't think asking the name of your business was in any way personal or out of line but if you think so then I apoligize for asking.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 12:57 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote:
Nobody is learning to fly in an SR22. C'mon!


I guess the local flight school then is a huge scam:
[Link]http://iflycoast.com[/Link]

SR20

But that flight school knows what it's doing. Good link.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front.......
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 13:02 
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I have to agree with Jason for the most part. The problem I have is the acquisition price of a new plane. Doesn't matter the brand for arguments sake. I don't beleive there are really that many people who are going to get pissed off enough at TSA to go buy a $600K+ new airplane. Some sure, many I doubt it - those kind of prices have a way of sobering even the most pissed off people.

Now I believe alot of those people end up on NetJets or the like, not trying to learn to fly themselves and how ADF navigation works...

The only way Beech will survive is to change their current offerings and introduce a game-changer - composite 6 seater with A36 load capacity and at a price point that seriously threatens the upper end Cirrus market place. If Cirrus is first to the market with a 6 seater - it might be over for Beech.

But what to I know? I'm just an entrepreneur and student pilot.

Peace,
Don


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