So how do these ostensibly smart people get suckered? I remember reading as the Eclipse moved from initial announcement to debacle. If you were walking around thinking you were going to get a jet for $850K you were an idiot. I knew that just like I knew the Thielert diesel would never pan out. $80K for an engine that every couple hundred hours you had to unbolt some random piece and mail back to Germany for analysis. Nonstarter.

Look at all of Madoff's clients! We would think that these people didn't make all that money making poor decisions, but I guess anyone can do something stupid ...

What they were selling was definitely too good to be true. Their sales projections were ridiculous. A 3rd grader could look at their business model, analyze market conditions and tell you that it wasn't going to work. That didn't stop Bill Gates from investing ....

Eclipse, the Ponzi scheme that happened to produce a nice little jet as a side-effect.

Had there been an Eclipse with riveted construction, G1000 and the current engines from the start, they would indeed 'darken the sky'.

Only issue listed is they do not have the G1000. I thought the Eclipse was before Garmin FMS started to take over the world...

Tim

So how do these ostensibly smart people get suckered? I remember reading as the Eclipse moved from initial announcement to debacle. If you were walking around thinking you were going to get a jet for $850K you were an idiot. I knew that just like I knew the Thielert diesel would never pan out. $80K for an engine that every couple hundred hours you had to unbolt some random piece and mail back to Germany for analysis. Nonstarter.

G1000 equipped Eclipse would be a dream.

I guess we will just never be able to talk about the airplane without talking about the company ...

That is one of the most factually correct statements in this thread !

Look at all of Madoff's clients! We would think that these people didn't make all that money making poor decisions, but I guess anyone can do something stupid ...

What they were selling was definitely too good to be true. Their sales projections were ridiculous. A 3rd grader could look at their business model, analyze market conditions and tell you that it wasn't going to work. That didn't stop Bill Gates from investing ....

Ted,

I agree that every aircraft is a compromise. I would disagree with assessment that the Bonanza is as limited....FIKI TKS, several WX options, unlimited avionics options. But to totally agree that the Eclipse meets the training profile you need and at a more affordable cost for jet training.

A very interesting thread. Reminds me of the Bede Jet scandal some years ago. I am also reminded of the old adage that, especially in aviation, that you can't get something for nothing but, you can sure get nothing for something.

I would also remind anyone contemplating a jet, especially those not experienced in jet operations, that the purchase price is just the admission fee and that it costs a whole lot more to play in this very expensive game.

Hindsight is 20/20. I suppose you could argue that Eclipse's customers made a mistake, but investors can't think in those terms.

The problem is that the Googles, Apples, and Amazons of the world looked at least as doomed to fail as Eclipse did when they were starting out. Investors need to bet on these long shots and hope that the few successes make up for all the failures.

Did any of these crooks get jail time?

I have said it before and I will say it again. Acquisition cost of an aircraft is like the cover charge at a titty bar. It may get you in the door, but it won't get you any drinks or lap dances.

I do remember when this whole Eclipse thing started and I made the comment then that it would never work. Others pooh poohed that statement of course (including the press that tended to gush over the idea of a cheap entry level jet and bought off on all the marketing fluff put out by Eclipse). Sadly, the house of cards that was Eclipse, did indeed fall in and those that had taken the plunge into the expensive arena of the jet dream lost a lot of money.

Day Jet, which was projected to purchase mega numbers of Eclipses, was another one of those concepts that I saw as a complete idiotic idea, devised by some computer guy who had no aviation background and no concept of how air taxi/charter outfits work in real life. It too collapsed of course. I remember being in Tallahasse and looking at one of their Eclipses before they folded their tent - I was not impressed. Very small interior with seats that didn't look too comfortable.

One tends to get what one pays for, and personally, I would rather pay more for something like a Cessna Mustang than try and cheap out by purchasing a bottom feeder like an Eclipse. I doubt the Eclipse saga is over yet and, as pointed out in an earlier post, it is yet to be determined which company is worse - the original Eclipse or the New Eclipse. Of course one is free to spend one's money on whatever he/she wants but, even if I had money to throw away, I don't think I would dive into the world of the Eclipse. Just my 2 cents.

I like the cocept of the Eclipse; even the new Eclise 550 which is going into production (the original plane with all the upgrades). Beyond not having the money, Eclipse has to many not invented here mentaltity which I think is a mistake for both the longer life of the company and the plane. Specifically, the avionics, engines (I have read but do not understand how they "customized" the engines).

Tim