07 May 2025, 09:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 26 Jul 2021, 10:38 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 8216 Post Likes: +10382 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: Mike has hated Cirrus for many years. There's something personal there. I don't hate Cirrus, I just wish they would make better decisions. The SR series is a fine airplane. The chute is not nearly the safety advantage claimed and can have negative impact on safety. The SF50 is a terrible jet from a performance standpoint, knowable before they ever built it. Cirrus is poisoned by its single engine religion which prevented it from building a proper jet. If Cirrus had built something similar to the Eclipse, it would have been much faster to market and outperformed the SF50 by leaps and bounds. That would have been a jet that truly changed the world. Cirrus advocates tend to view anyone not as blindly enthused as they are as a "hater". It is a coping mechanism so they can dismiss any criticism easily. Mike C.
"Terrible jet from a performance standpoint"
Well Mike, I guess one of these would be out of the question.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 26 Jul 2021, 10:43 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19949 Post Likes: +25020 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Well Mike, I guess one of these would be out of the question. :D For a traveling machine, definitely out of the question. ~300 mile range, 200 knots, probably not both at the same time. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 26 Jul 2021, 14:40 |
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Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2814 Post Likes: +2770 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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Username Protected wrote: The Epic 1000 is certified to Fl340, which, if you bothered to read the 1000 page original Vision Jet thread is impossible for a single engine certified plane, yet, they did it somehow. That was MikeC's claim. I don't recall that he's ever acknowledged that it was wrong. Quote: Maybe someone with an Eclipse can comment but I thought they slowed down quite a bit at FL410? My guess is small wing bites you up there. The SF50 has the opposite problem. Once stripped of his rabid hyperbole, the tiny sliver of rationality in Mike's critique of the SF50 is that the wing required to keep the stall speed within the certification limit for singles is bigger than optimal for cruise performance. Climbing higher would improve that, up to a point.
Last edited on 26 Jul 2021, 23:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 26 Jul 2021, 15:22 |
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Joined: 08/13/14 Posts: 540 Post Likes: +261
Aircraft: Cessna T206H
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Please keep us posted Mark
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 26 Jul 2021, 22:35 |
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Joined: 08/20/09 Posts: 2494 Post Likes: +2029 Company: Jcrane, Inc. Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
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Username Protected wrote: My wife and I sat in the SF50 at OSH today, I was quickly admonished for never telling her it existed. The SF50 beats everything on the market from her perspective (as a passenger) and I have to admit that the pilot ergonomics seems fantastic.
It is likely I will be scheduling a demo flight. That is identical to my wife's comments on the SR22 in 2005. The SR22 is still her favorite plane. 
_________________ Jack N441M N107XX Bubbles Up
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 07:35 |
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Joined: 11/25/11 Posts: 9015 Post Likes: +17213 Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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Everything about Cirrus products is terrible. I guess that is why they are so successful. I got a story, anyone surprised? I got a Sears MoPed when I was 11. There was a "motorcycle shop" over in Greenwood that sold mostly used Harleys, Triumphs, and whatever other junk was made in those days. My uncle lived over there and sometimes, I would ride my MoPed the 32 miles to visit and hang around Gordon Lackey's "motorcycle shop". Pretty much nothing more than a 10 x 20 tool room and adjoining shed in which to store bikes. The next year, I moved up to a Harley Hummer so I could ride with the Big Boys in Greenwood that had their 165 cubic inch Harley Super 6's and such. On one trip, I was hanging around Gordon's place and all the Harley guys were talking about the newest POS that someone had bought. Strange name: Honda. Well the next day, I was riding down Grand Boulevard and I see this unusual looking white motorcycle with a kid a year or so older than me riding it. I turned around, flagged hime down, and we had a nice meet. I was riding a new import called a Ducati. He wanted to ride the Ducati and I wanted to ride the POS Honda 150, so we swapped and did just that. When I got home, I told my mom to buy all the stock she could get in a Japanese company called "Honda". That Honda POS was so superior to the junk on the U.S. market that even a 13 year old could call the future. She didn't buy into my enthusiasm and didn't buy any stock. Claimed it was not traded in the U.S. It was then that I first learned the cost of prejudice and emotion. Cirrus are crap. I would give up at least one non-vital organ to own one of their Visions Jg
_________________ Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 08:11 |
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Joined: 04/09/16 Posts: 560 Post Likes: +167 Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
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Thank god my wife thinks the MU2 is the greatest airplane. I wouldn’t want to be forced into flying a single engine jet because she liked the color or cabin. That being said if you have the skills just buy a Lear31. Hire a pilot to be your sic (or likely if your a target cirrus pilot hire them as your pic) and buy 5 years worth of gas and maintenance and still spend less money then the toy jet. 
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 09:31 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19949 Post Likes: +25020 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: That Honda POS was so superior to the junk on the U.S. market that even a 13 year old could call the future. I bet the Honda wasn't the worst performing motorcycle on the market. The SR series is a top end piston airplane. The SF50 sets a new record for the worst performing jet. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 09:50 |
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Joined: 01/22/19 Posts: 1082 Post Likes: +844 Location: KPMP
Aircraft: PA23-250
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Username Protected wrote: That Honda POS was so superior to the junk on the U.S. market that even a 13 year old could call the future. The SF50 sets a new record for the worst performing jet. Mike C.
Well, that's not surprising, because it wasn't intended to be the best performing jet.
It was designed as a step up from the SR22. It fills a niche in the owner-flown market place that no one else has filled, and in doing so, has become the best selling light jet there is. Just as the SR22 is the best selling piston single aircraft there is.
It is the only survivor of the very light jet craze that brought a dozen entrants to the market. Of those, Eclipse lasted a little while, and couldn't even make it with all the money available through the association with United Technologies.
You'd have to admit that Cirrus has been successful, where no one else has. Of course, you'd also have to admit that there are hundreds of knowledgeable people, with plenty of money, who've researched all the alternatives, and have concluded that the Vision Jet is their best choice.
_________________ A&P/IA/CFI/avionics tech KPMP Cirrus aircraft expert
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 10:25 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19949 Post Likes: +25020 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Well, that's not surprising, because it wasn't intended to be the best performing jet. After much hard work and many many years, they did finally manage to reach their stated goal of the slowest, lowest, performing jet. If they had used the same thought process for starting a piston series, it would go 90 knots but burn 25 GPH. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 10:26 |
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Joined: 11/07/11 Posts: 790 Post Likes: +452 Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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Worst performing jet? hmmm
Slowest: Achieved Lowest: Achieved Cheapest: Achieved
Depends where your goal posts are I suppose.
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 10:29 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19949 Post Likes: +25020 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Cheapest: Achieved Technically, the Eclipse 500 sold for less even in inflation adjusted dollars. We don't yet know if the SF50 program has turned a profit yet. There was a lot of money spent in development. Eclipse didn't have sales of the SR series or Chinese money to prop them up. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision G2+ announced today Posted: 28 Jul 2021, 10:34 |
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Joined: 12/07/17 Posts: 6976 Post Likes: +5868 Company: Malco Power Design Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
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Username Protected wrote: Cheapest: Achieved Technically, the Eclipse 500 sold for less even in inflation adjusted dollars. We don't yet know if the SF50 program has turned a profit yet. There was a lot of money spent in development. Eclipse didn't have sales of the SR series or Chinese money to prop them up. Mike C.
And where do I go to buy one of those new? To get parts?
Bringing up a jet that bankrupted its manufacturer as a cheaper option isn’t really a valid comparison.
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