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19 Nov 2025, 11:06 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 14:35 
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Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
Actually this -

1) buy smallest planesense share now.
2) See what local expertise exists in maintaining a pressurized piston twin.
3) Start looking for any popular pressurized piston twin (340/414/421/58P/Aerostar) that your mechanic likes and buy the first great one you find.
4) while doing #3, realize planesense fits your mission and upgrade to 1/4 share


The 1/16 share is a $350,000 buy-in, $6,000/month management fee, and $1,167/hr when you fly. That gets you 50 hrs.
And there's no guarantee what you can sell your share for when you want out.

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N441M N107XX


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 14:42 
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Username Protected wrote:

Point being if he’s considering buying an old 8-place airplane for $500K that might not be in the best of condition and capability, he might not want to put the four most important people in it.


I knew what you meant. We are good.
His parameters don’t add up. In manufacturing we say : quality, speed, price. Pick any two.
That budget, that distance, that runway, that pax load..... Pipe dream.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 14:56 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
There are always compromises in aviation!

The real trick is to buy something you can sell and buy it right.

Once he’s gotten his feet wet, he can decide what compromises to accept. That is why I suggested a King Air, the airplane won’t bite you and you can sell it quickly if you need to.

There is a reason why you have so many Citation II’s to choose from, they are slow sellers. No exit strategy is a bad plan for someone new to turbine aircraft ownership.

I named the company “Jet” Acquisitions not King Air Acquisitions, and I agree with all of the jet benefits expressed here... but the first time this guy spends $25k on an ACM he’ll be hating ownership. One should crawl before walking unless money is no object. (and if it was not... CJ3, KA350 or PC12!)

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Recent acquisitions - 2004 King Air B200 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 M2Gen2!


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 16:44 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
but the first time this guy spends $25k on an ACM he’ll be hating ownership.

He will hate it less if the ACM is in a Citation he finds very useful than an ACM in a King Air he finds slow and noisy.

Any construction company who has projects all 1/4 of the USA has the revenue to support a Citation. Why not start with an airplane that really DOES the job? Compared to buying a King Air wishing you had a jet, buying a jet and finding out it doesn't work tells you no airplane will and you should just get out and charter.

For rental pilots, I'd rather they fly a jet than a turboprop. There's just so much less to go wrong, really.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 16:45 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote:
The 1/16 share is a $350,000 buy-in, $6,000/month management fee, and $1,167/hr when you fly. That gets you 50 hrs.
And there's no guarantee what you can sell your share for when you want out.

Damn..... owning one is much cheaper.

If you're not a pilot you're gonna pay a fortune and have no control..... that's all there is to it. If I wasn't a pilot I'd probably fly commercial.


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 17:46 
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Joined: 08/20/09
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
The 1/16 share is a $350,000 buy-in, $6,000/month management fee, and $1,167/hr when you fly. That gets you 50 hrs.
And there's no guarantee what you can sell your share for when you want out.

Damn..... owning one is much cheaper.

If you're not a pilot you're gonna pay a fortune and have no control..... that's all there is to it. If I wasn't a pilot I'd probably fly commercial.

Yep. And it only gets worse for a more normal utilization...

Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 17:50 
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I wonder if they sell only a limited number of shares or if they just keep going?


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 19:28 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Username Protected wrote:
but the first time this guy spends $25k on an ACM he’ll be hating ownership.

He will hate it less if the ACM is in a Citation he finds very useful than an ACM in a King Air he finds slow and noisy.

Any construction company who has projects all 1/4 of the USA has the revenue to support a Citation. Why not start with an airplane that really DOES the job? Compared to buying a King Air wishing you had a jet, buying a jet and finding out it doesn't work tells you no airplane will and you should just get out and charter.

For rental pilots, I'd rather they fly a jet than a turboprop. There's just so much less to go wrong, really.

Mike C.


Based on the budget, it sounds like revenue is an issue. Again, I agree that there’s a lot of value in a legacy jet, but remember what it’s like to not know... the average owner gets hit with $50k... $100k... $150k... he isn’t expecting and he’s done.

I’ve operated King Airs of all varieties as well as 550 and 560 Citations... love them all. But, the legacy Citations can bite you in the pocket book, the ACM is just one example. There’s very few items on a King Air or for that matter an MU2 that cost $25k a pop.

The logic behind a King Air is that if they want out they can liquidate it, if they stay in... they can upgrade to a jet. Buying a legacy key because they are cheap is shortsighted. With a better defined mission they might be able to get by in a CJ series... which can be owned for what it cost to operate a legacy Citation.
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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 19:31 
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Wow - $100k/month to “manage” a pc12 then $20/minute to fly. Sheesh


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 19:33 
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
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Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
Quote:
. How about giving numerical examples to back up your point.

Mike C.


I have some here for my Commander. It would be interesting to compare them to your MU2 and the citations you are lusting over.

The jets suffer when hot and high, particularly the older ones. Jets are normally aspirated for lack of a better description. Our TPs are derated.

First is a MGW std day sea level single engine climb

1000 fpm climb
9.0% climb gradient
547 ft per NM

Next is MGW departure at 6000ft and a temp of 30c

650 fpm climb
5.0% climb gradient
304 ft per NM


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 19:53 
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
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Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
Quote:
. The 980 Commander Vxse is 97 (which is unusually low due to excessive wing area).


I know mine is bigger but I would not call it excessive!

Let put away the yard sticks before somebody gets hurt.

Mike there is nothing wrong with small!


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 20:00 
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
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Username Protected wrote:
Wow - $100k/month to “manage” a pc12 then $20/minute to fly. Sheesh


Owners are supporting a 24/7/365 available anytime operation. Pilots, A&Ps, dispatch, scheduling, billing, accounting, HR, management. It adds up with lots of cost to have the plane at the ready compared to a single plane owner operation.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 20:30 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
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Username Protected wrote:
Wow - $100k/month to “manage” a pc12 then $20/minute to fly. Sheesh


Owners are supporting a 24/7/365 available anytime operation. Pilots, A&Ps, dispatch, scheduling, billing, accounting, HR, management. It adds up with lots of cost to have the plane at the ready compared to a single plane owner operation.


Certainly does add up.

$2600/hr for 50 hours or $130k/yr

I suppose that’s a good value in certain situations

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 20:40 
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Username Protected wrote:

$2600/hr for 50 hours or $130k/yr

I suppose that’s a good value in certain situations


I would think that hourly cost is around charter rates. I think charter can be less expensive, especially considering no capital costs, as long as you can plan ahead and schedule the plane.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Purchase Research: Pressurized Twin Options
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 21:23 
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Username Protected wrote:

$2600/hr for 50 hours or $130k/yr

I suppose that’s a good value in certain situations


I would think that hourly cost is around charter rates. I think charter can be less expensive, especially considering no capital costs, as long as you can plan ahead and schedule the plane.


Chartering a PC12 is a lot cheaper than that...

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