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19 Nov 2025, 18:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 12:14 
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I also know for a fact that my 421 is cheaper to maintain and operate than a comparable C90. Anecdotally, it's cheaper than a comparable TBM as well. Could I operate a meridian cheaper? Perhaps, but it won't do my mission. The MU2 certainly has a reputation as being inexpensive to operate.


No one's mentioned a Merlin yet, on this thread. In the context of a next step from a 340/421, seems like the Merlin would be pretty capable and relatively affordable to operate.


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 15:34 
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Guys like yourself who like to be involved in their own maintenance don't understand people who appreciate quality and on time. You don't mind quality cheap but you don't get on time when you get involved in your own maintenance. You spending time sourcing parts, making decisions, etc. It always delays the final product. When my living depended on flying 3 days a week on tight schedule, all I cared about was quality and on time: annual starts on Monday, get finished by next Monday. I didn't care about overnight charges for shipping. Shops like the one above can deliver that. You cannot do that on the cheap.



Quote:
So because I'm involved in my aircraft maintenance I don't understand quality? Or Time?


Quote:
You understand quality, but no, clearly you don't understand time if you're going to be dickering with a shop over half an hour here and half an hour there. Guess which customers get priority when their aircraft is AOG? The ones that pay invoices as issued, on time and don't bother and break the normal part sourcing routines trying to save $50 on a battery being shipped from Timbuktu then forcing manual entries in the accounting software as opposed to a weekly data dump import from their usual supplier. Where you see a rip off, others see convenience. Convenience costs extra.


Sorry I'm just trying to keep up. So your saying the more I pay a mechanic the better quality I'm getting? Maybe I should apply that thinking to the $5,000 oil leak I had earlier this year. Took it to a real reputable shop who was more than happy to take my money. I'm sure ur shop treats you well when u walk in the door. I'm sure they love you. After all, your putting their kids through college.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 15:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
Without making this a pissing contest, it be informative to have cost estimates from owners that are involved in their own maintenance (as most airplane owners are).

Thus far, this thread gives the impression these birds are unusually expensive to maintain. However, it's clear now those reporting consistent high 5 figure maintenance costs simply toss the keys to expensive shops and walk away. That's certainly one way to maintain a plane. But by far not the most common or optimal.

It seems to me that absent major big ticket items (engine/prop OH, window replacement, engine beams, etc) there is no reason to have 5 figure maintenance bills as far as the eyes can see.

So can Mr Stetson and other pressurized twin drivers chime in?


My plane has cost me no more than$7,500 per annual for the last 2 years. I've had other non airworthy things done to the plane during that time. However nothing close to 20K. Of course barring an engine or prop that we all deal with, I feel like a lot of twin Cessna owners are giving us a bad name by spouting off 20K-100K annuals. At that point just pay some one who knows what their doing to manage ur plane. Heck I'd do it for 20K.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 15:56 
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Rick,

Please tell me you own a twin Cessna, or have owned one.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 16:09 
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...I feel like a lot of twin Cessna owners are giving us a bad name...

And there is probably a reputable mechanic or two reading this who feel like you're giving them a bad name.
There are many, many good shops across this country who do excellent work, at a fair price, with the best interest of their customers in mind...truly. That's why they're known as 'good shops'. They do it right, they aren't cheap, and their schedule is packed.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 16:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
...I feel like a lot of twin Cessna owners are giving us a bad name...

And there is probably a reputable mechanic or two reading this who feel like you're giving them a bad name.
There are many, many good shops across this country who do excellent work, at a fair price, with the best interest of their customers in mind...truly. That's why they're known as 'good shops'. They do it right, they aren't cheap, and their schedule is packed.



Jack,

What's the base annual price for your plane at your shop?

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 16:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jack,

What's the base annual price for your plane at your shop?

$4,800 last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
...I feel like a lot of twin Cessna owners are giving us a bad name...

And there is probably a reputable mechanic or two reading this who feel like you're giving them a bad name.
There are many, many good shops across this country who do excellent work, at a fair price, with the best interest of their customers in mind...truly. That's why they're known as 'good shops'. They do it right, they aren't cheap, and their schedule is packed.



The problem is there are a lot more planes than mechanics Jack. Lemme guess TAS guy? Didn't ur engine quit?
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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:07 
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Stetson has made a very valid point regarding Cessna twins and perhaps all piston twins for that matter. The more an owner is involved the better. Twin prices will continue the downward spiral for many reasons, perhaps outrageous maintenance costs is one of the the major reasons.
I appreciated Jack posting his detail annual costs it was very informative, thank you Jack. You have a great looking 421.


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
This has been an interesting thread.
Rick, do you currently own or have previously owned a C414A ? You had some good information regarding the performance on this aircraft. Is there a particular model year you liked better? Did you have any experience with the 414B models with the Ram upgrades? Any comments regarding the 414A spar issues?
Are any 340/414/421 owners having issues getting parts?


no, and the few parts I have ordered have been on par with my experience with Beechcraft parts.

"expensive" is relative. I'll say it again: there's no way to do what these airplanes do for less money. they're (for now) the sweet spot between singles and unpressurized twins, and turboprops.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jack,

What's the base annual price for your plane at your shop?

$4,800 last year.



$55/hr. No flat rate.
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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:19 
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...perhaps outrageous maintenance costs is one of the the major reasons...



I don't understand this. It's an expensive platform compared to a piper cub, and compared to an A36. it's closer in cost to a B58, but still more because there are many many more systems than a Baron, and those require maintenance. I don't consider it outrageous, rather it's a complicated airframe. (I have 6 fuel tanks, 10 fuel pumps, 2 de-ice systems, etc).

I'm involved in mx, and relatively frugal (BTW, if I see loose or missing screws I tighten or replace them). I direct the maintenance, very carefully so I understand what is happening.

If I flew a Pilatus, I'd expect the cost would also be more- because it's a more complicated airframe with more capability. if you're looking at flying a pressurized piston twin, you should expect the complications and corresponding increase in cost, but that's not outrageous.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:37 
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Didn't ur engine quit?

Yep, during initial training. Fault of previous mechanic, not TAS.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:41 
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U said your mechanic's schedule is packed Jack. That's what I was getting at. 3 shops are being blessed with the "Twin Cessna Expert" label. Far too many twin Cessnas for 3 shops.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 17:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
$55/hr. No flat rate.

Are you saying your mechanic charges $55 per hour?!
Is that a buddy rate or his book rate?

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