16 Jan 2026, 06:17 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP  Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 13:00 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote:
ISA is +17. That affects performance. Would be a lot faster at ISA,
No doubt. I flew yesterday in Florida and it was hot as a firecracker. Still never seen cruise at 258 and I would be at an ITT of 775 or so.
ISA in FL today is forecasted to be +15 at FL250. Without you knowing what ISA was you can't compare TAS at a TQ at an altitude.
Hot at ground level does not usually make it hot at altitude. High ISA at altitude is often when it is relatively cooler at ground level and the denser cool air lifts the warm air into the FLs.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 13:11 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
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Interesting how a thread about the Cessna Denali has morphed into a PC12 engine operation and TAS discussion.
It is interesting to note that with the GE engine with FADEC and single power lever control the operators of the Denali will not have these complexities and variables. The engine will be able to run consistently at maximum power controlled by the FADEC. That is innovation and progress in the SETP.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 13:13 |
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Joined: 08/05/11
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Username Protected wrote: Interesting how a thread about the Cessna Denali has morphed into a PC12 engine operation and TAS discussion.
It is interesting to note that with the GE engine with FADEC and single power lever control the operators of the Denali will not have these complexities and variables. The engine will be able to run consistently at maximum power controlled by the FADEC. That is innovation and progress in the SETP. Almost an ad for Cessna
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 13:14 |
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Joined: 07/13/11
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Company: Aeronautical People Shuffler
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Username Protected wrote: My closest in the last few days
IAS:176
Alt:24000
OAT: -17
TQ:27.4
ITT:277
NG:98.2
NP:1693 (I need that adjusted. Always 10rpm slow)
FF:390
Oil T:49
Oil P:118 Your TAS is 260kts APP says your torque should be 27.56, flow 394, and TAS of 259kts You are right on book, just need the ITT adjusted.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 13:23 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Interesting how a thread about the Cessna Denali has morphed into a PC12 engine operation and TAS discussion.
It is interesting to note that with the GE engine with FADEC and single power lever control the operators of the Denali will not have these complexities and variables. The engine will be able to run consistently at maximum power controlled by the FADEC. That is innovation and progress in the SETP. Almost an ad for Cessna
And a commentary on how old the technology is on the PT6A and time for some improvement.
Cessna and others used the P&W JT15 engines in the early light jets - Citation 500/550. Then along came Williams FJ44 engines and Cessna launched the CJ that lead to today's Citation line.
The GE turboprop can be to the P&WC PT6A what the Williams FJ44 was to the P&W JT15 engine. If so the Denali is just the beginning the way the original CJ was.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 14:33 |
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Joined: 05/29/09
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Username Protected wrote: The GE turboprop can be to the P&WC PT6A what the Williams FJ44 was to the P&W JT15 engine. If so the Denali is just the beginning the way the original CJ was. Thats kind of funny considering GE got into the small turboprop business by buying out Walter who was in the business of manufacturing a soviet knockoff PT6. They have apparently done one heck of a job redesigning the engine using modern engineering and manufacturing techniques, but the engine is still a PT6A derivative.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 16:35 |
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Salzburg, Austria
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Username Protected wrote: My closest in the last few days
IAS:176
Alt:24000
OAT: -17
TQ:27.4
ITT:277
NG:98.2
NP:1693 (I need that adjusted. Always 10rpm slow)
FF:390
Oil T:49
Oil P:118 Your TAS is 260kts APP says your torque should be 27.56, flow 394, and TAS of 259kts You are right on book, just need the ITT adjusted.
may I throw one in, does not matter as we already are so far OT…
let's assume, the trim stick is the correct one….let us assume, because the engine seems to run on the "hot" side that your temp probes in the engine are correct….the real gotcha, the ones that I am worried about, are the "cool" engines…they may in fact have a problem with burned off temp probes…which may be the reason they indicate "cool" when in fact they are pretty hot…
let's assume the torque sensor is not "bent" but indicating correctly…
how about, when was the last compressor and turbine wash performed on that engine?
try it out….
to gain 20° C or more after a good compressor wash on a PT 6 or any other turbine engine for that matter is easy…
just saying..
may be wrong...
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 16:56 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: The GE turboprop can be to the P&WC PT6A what the Williams FJ44 was to the P&W JT15 engine. If so the Denali is just the beginning the way the original CJ was. Thats kind of funny considering GE got into the small turboprop business by buying out Walter who was in the business of manufacturing a soviet knockoff PT6. They have apparently done one heck of a job redesigning the engine using modern engineering and manufacturing techniques, but the engine is still a PT6A derivative.
Lots of things in aviation are derivative works.
P&WC could have updated the PT6A with FADEC and simplified power management but they have been complacent and left the door open for GE to compete and improve the turboprop.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 17:23 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Please don't put FADEC in my plane. With Envelope protection, straight and level, a digital AP that can outfly me, a LNAV/VNAV programmable FMS, if they take engine management away from me, I have absolutely nothing left to do in the plane.  Ha. So true. I always see PC12's on the ramp with 2 uniformed pilots waiting on PAX. I'll always ask.... "so what do the 2 of you guys do while flying this thing? Scrabble?
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 17:32 |
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 6025
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
Aircraft: planeless
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Username Protected wrote: Please don't put FADEC in my plane. With Envelope protection, straight and level, a digital AP that can outfly me, a LNAV/VNAV programmable FMS, if they take engine management away from me, I have absolutely nothing left to do in the plane. Ha. So true. I always see PC12's on the ramp with 2 uniformed pilots waiting on PAX. I'll always ask.... "so what do the 2 of you guys do while flying this thing? Scrabble?
Distract each other so that they can crash on short final...
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 18:34 |
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Joined: 07/13/11
Posts: 2755
Post Likes: +2188
Company: Aeronautical People Shuffler
Location: Picayune, MS (KHSA)
Aircraft: KA350/E55/DA-62
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Username Protected wrote: Ha. So true.
I always see PC12's on the ramp with 2 uniformed pilots waiting on PAX. I'll always ask.... "so what do the 2 of you guys do while flying this thing? Scrabble? Well two uninformed pilots is completely unnecessary, You have seen what I wear to work when we met....I think the bus driver get up is so ridiculous looking.... Attachment: IMG_4922.JPG As for what I do..... I sit there and think, Holy $#!T I am getting paid to do this!!! No one ever said they wanted to work in middle management when they were 5....
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The sound of a second engine still running after the first engine fails is why I like having two.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 19:10 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: As for what I do..... I sit there and think, Holy $#!T I am getting paid to do this!!! No one ever said they wanted to work in middle management when they were 5.... Ha I play Scrabble on the iPad. I've gotten damn good too. Great picture. We never posted it. Will you be at Osh?
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