The standard retreat, redefine the problem by changing what is an apple.

Clearly people buy singles without chutes.

Case closed.

Mike C.

Wrong.

Here are the numbers for shipments of piston singles from 2010 to 2014:

American Champion: 140
Beechcraft: 125
Cessna: 1361
Cirrus: 1356
Cub Crafters: 228
Diamond: 140
Extra: 87
Flight Design: 342
Gippsland: 67
Liberty: 17
Maule: 25
Mooney: 3
Piper: 464
Tecnam: 239
Waco: 24

Total: 4618

Cirrus is 29.4% of piston singles sold over that period. They were #2 just behind Cessna in unit sales.

In other words, more than 70% of the buyers chose something other than Cirrus.

(GAMA doesn't have 2015 data complete yet, so this is the latest 5 year span available)

Go check my numbers at GAMA:

http://gama.aero/media-center/industry- ... t-database

Mike C.

Note the Mooney numbers. Only 3 in the 5 years from 2010 to 2014, 11 in 2015. Big change. They were effectively dead until last year.

Mike C.

Note the Mooney numbers. Only 3 in the 5 years from 2010 to 2014, 11 in 2015. Big change. They were effectively dead until last year.

Mike C.

The standard retreat, redefine the problem by changing what is an apple.

Clearly people buy singles without chutes.

Case closed.

Mike C.

Yeah, right, here I am as a buyer, thinking "hmmm, what should I get - a Maule, a Technam, a Waco, or a Cirrus?"

For 60% of buyers on this list, Cirrus wasn't even a consideration - they were shopping for a different kind of plane. Out of the remaining 40% (those looking for high performance traveling single), 30% picked a Cirrus.

Not to mention that Flight Design also comes with a chute. Heck, Cub Crafters is now adding a chute. When people start adding chutes to a Cub, you know that ship has sailed.

A picture is worth 1,000 words...

A good number of buyers on this list are not individuals. 172s are sold in contracts of 20 at a time to university flight departments. CAP and government affiliated mailbox companies are volume buyers of 182s. Many of the airvans were .gov contracts as well.

Yep, exactly. Most of the 172s are bought by flight schools, so the pilots flying them don't have a choice. C-206s go to various bush flying outfits. Etc. etc. etc. The only real competitors to Cirrus are Cessna TTx, Bonanza G36, maybe Piper Matrix, and now Mooney. Look how much they sell.

How many get delivered with and without chute? That would be an interesting number.

I don't have any data one way or the other.

BRS on Carbon Cub is $16K option, 43 pounds over base model.

If I had to guess, I'd expect about half Carbon Cub SS ship with chute.

If the chute advocates are right, that everybody want chutes, then it should be almost all of them come with a chute.

Mike C.

A chute on a Cub, now there's a useless feature. No real Cub pilot would ever bolt on 43 pounds of chute. These guys would sell their mother to save 5 pounds.

Dave

Also needed is to compare corporate financial viability when making a 3/4 mil purchase that will last for several years. Let's go back 5 years and look at the financials of both Mooney and Cirris. Which would you choose to buy after the corporate financials were considered? A company that has a long track record of producing airplanes buy the dozens or one that has a 100 watt lightbulb burning on the factory floor? Past sales of Mooneys placed against Cirris may not be a valid comparison then or now.
The financials look a world different now in Kerrville than they did 5 or 6 years ago. That in itself will produce some sales. Right now, they did, I think, 13 or 14 Mooneys in the last year (from what I hear it could have been 5 or 6 more without the FAA sitting in on the first dozen). I think the plan calls for 3 a month in the next year
Comparisons between the two may not reliable for another year or two. The chute may play a smaller part than postulated. The 2 doors may be a bigger factor than the chute in the long run and the fact that it will do 240+ knots.
How many new Bonanzas are sold with a chute? :-)
Let's look at what they have accomplished in maybe 18 or 20 months- a complete new clean sheet airplane design through first test flights (M10), restart a practically dead production line and build 12 or 13 conforming airframes, back fill the supply chain for the legacy airplanes, invest millions in facilities and equipment to modernize. These are all items those with the funds to purchase a NEW airplane takes into account when making a decision on whom to buy from.
Comparisons may be premature

That might say more about Cub pilots than chutes.

Mike C.

That might say more about Cub pilots than chutes.

Mike C.