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03 Dec 2025, 06:14 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 16:15 
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Joined: 01/24/10
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
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Full power on takeoff 39" 2235 rpm, verify gauges, rotate 95, gear up at briefed point (usually positive rate for me on 5k urban airfield) usually 120 indicated for first couple hundred feet is a comfortable deck angle, let airspeed build to 140, 1000' agl pull back to 35" and 1900 rpm 140 indicated or 7.5 degrees. No cowl flaps on the plane. The book says 125 indicated for climb, and you could do that. 140 Is pretty conservative and the hottest CHT I've ever seen is 350. Mixtures stay full rich until cruise.



I do the same except I lean for climb. After I set climb power I lean to 1400 to 1450 TIT and in cruise I lean to 1500 to 1550 TIT.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 16:22 
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Joined: 11/18/10
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Location: Chicago
Aircraft: C441, C310N
What FF does that get you in climb Jerry? I'm usually about 30gph/side at full rich.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 16:39 
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
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Username Protected wrote:
What FF does that get you in climb Jerry? I'm usually about 30gph/side at full rich.



28.5 to 29 GPH per engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 17:32 
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Joined: 01/09/13
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Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
Username Protected wrote:
Can a 421 driver post their takeoff procedure? i.e. power settings on take off and climb, cowl flap positions, climb airspeed etc...

Asking for a friend... :whistle:



Stetson- 1 item that I will often do is reduced takeoff thrust.. So on a long runway and medium weights, I will bring power to the top of the green arc for MP which is 33" rather than MAX power at 39"... My philosophy is that when at light weights the aircraft has plenty of power, is airborne in 3000 feet and I'll save my engines the wear and tear... This practice is used daily in the Jets and is proven by data to save engine cost and reduce engine failure chances... The power is available if a failure happens... Just my technique.. 1 other thought- I am at climb thrust so when I'm airborne MP is not touched till at cruise, RPM are max and reduce at 1000 AGL..


The 421C will burn 30+ gallons per side at takeoff which brings your range down the longer you keep the fuel at max.. I bring the fuel flow back shortly after take off with no issues of high CHT .. My P Baron was not able to do this but the engines on the 421C run very cool... or cooler than the P baron engines..

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Good Luck,

Tim
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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 17:55 
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
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421C MAX Take off power FF should be 43 to 45GPH per side. FF for climb 28 to 30 per side. IMHO reduced power take off's are not a good idea. The very small amount of reduced wear and tear for 90 seconds on take off is not worth the risk of losing and engine at lift off with less than max power.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 18:05 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Full throttle enrichment for CHT cooling is an issue with reduced thrust takeoffs in pistons that turbines don't see. At low airspeed, you're using fuel much more than air to keep temps manageable. What are your CHT's at rotation using reduced thrust?


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 19:21 
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
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Username Protected wrote:
Full throttle enrichment for CHT cooling is an issue with reduced thrust takeoffs in pistons that turbines don't see. At low airspeed, you're using fuel much more than air to keep temps manageable. What are your CHT's at rotation using reduced thrust?



Charles, full throttle fuel enrichment is an important consideration . The amount of remaining runway for an aborted take off is also reduced and increases risk. I also want to know both engines are able to produce max take off power and not be limited to 33 inches on the good engine if one should fail.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 20:27 
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Joined: 01/09/13
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Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
Username Protected wrote:
421C MAX Take off power FF should be 43 to 45GPH per side. FF for climb 28 to 30 per side. IMHO reduced power take off's are not a good idea. The very small amount of reduced wear and tear for 90 seconds on take off is not worth the risk of losing and engine at lift off with less than max power.




Gerald-- just my technique.. I'll run the plane up prior to Take off checking the engines. A vfr take off on a long runway is completely safe.. Been doing them 30 years...

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Tim
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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 21:50 
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Joined: 12/25/12
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Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
Mid to light weights I do the 1900 and 32" take off also. Just goes along with my thinking that I am saving the engines wear and tear. The last ones went over 1600 hours and I never put on a cylinder. Heck I also do reduced power take offs in my A36 also and I have over 2000 hours on that engine and never have done cylinders. Complete study, no, just my thoughts.

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Rocky Hill

Altitude is Everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 22:14 
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Joined: 07/10/10
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My 414AW regularly cruises 210 ktas at about 32 gph in the low 20's. Some days even 215.

Here's a video I posted awhile back of me at FL230:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2WliwSknIRU

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----Still emotionally attached to my Baron----


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 23:26 
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Joined: 08/20/09
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Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Does anybody have before and after experience with strakes?
I've heard 8-10 kt tas increases recently from several sources...true?

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Jack
N441M N107XX


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 23:32 
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Joined: 04/28/09
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Company: ARC Group Medical
Location: Jacksonville , FL (KCRG)
Aircraft: 1976 Bonanza V35TN
Username Protected wrote:
Does anybody have before and after experience with strakes?
I've heard 8-10 kt tas increases recently from several sources...true?


I flown a few with and without and I think it depends if it's a B or C and wether it has winglets or not.... Also from the Twin Cessna forum I've read that the don't get the same improvements in the 340 line.... I would say from what I've learned that it's an average of 6-8kts on the 400 series.... When you flew one with strakes you notice the AOA in cruise is about half....

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Former GenX Bonanza owner.... now flying the 421 Golden Turkey


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 23:44 
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Why do the 421s use a 520 engine to produce 375 hp?

I would have thought a 550 would be better suited? Has anyone ever done a stc to put 550s in?

Or is it just two hard to match the gearing?


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 23:53 
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Wow, six pages and no one has brought up T-Bone or Duke. :)

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 23:58 
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12835
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Username Protected wrote:
Why do the 421s use a 520 engine to produce 375 hp?

I would have thought a 550 would be better suited? Has anyone ever done a stc to put 550s in?

Or is it just two hard to match the gearing?


520 vs 550 is only a 6% change in displacement. Relatively trivial. The main thing that allows more power is 40" manifold pressure and 3300 rpm.


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