12 Jun 2025, 02:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 10:31 |
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Joined: 04/29/13 Posts: 754 Post Likes: +542
Aircraft: C177RG, ATOS-VR
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Username Protected wrote: But at those prices, I could buy a pressurized twin and fly for the rest of my career with the price difference used for fuel and maintenance. Seems that way, but it really isn't. A P210R might cost $150K more than, say, a 340. Say you fly 150 hours, the 340 costs $100 more per hour in fuel, and $100 more per hour in maintenance, so that $30K more per year. So the $150K surplus is used up in 5 years. And then you sell. The P210R guy has higher hull value so he gets most of his money back, the 340 guy doesn't. Operating cost is the prime determinant of total ownership cost. Mike C.
Ah, but I am an A&P with a machine shop and do all of my own work (except for inspections since I always like a second set of eyes on my work, and I barter for the inspections). The major difference for me would be fuel, insurance (about $1,000 a year more for a pressured twin) and hanger. So my $150,000 savings would last me closer to 20 years. That doesn't even figure in the earnings of the $150,000, which at my 20 year average rate of return would be over $10,000 a year.
Vince
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 12:05 |
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Joined: 04/04/14 Posts: 1849 Post Likes: +1386 Location: Southern California
Aircraft: C 210
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Username Protected wrote: Vince but don't forget that extra engine and prop to maintain. That's $70amu right there! Plus the whole "time is money" factor. You may not have to pay someones labor rate and parts markup but your time is worth something!
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 12:22 |
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Joined: 04/29/13 Posts: 754 Post Likes: +542
Aircraft: C177RG, ATOS-VR
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Username Protected wrote: Vince but don't forget that extra engine and prop to maintain. That's $70amu right there! $70amu sounds like a gold plated overhaul, not maintenance. I could fly my current plane the rest of my life and not have to overhaul the engine. As for my time, I consider working on my plane one of my hobbies, so instead of paying for entertainment, I get the pleasure of working on my plane. I'm money ahead. I'm retiring in 10 months and 15 days (but who's counting) and my wife has already warned me that I would have to spend more time at the airport. Vince
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 13:33 |
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Joined: 02/09/11 Posts: 652 Post Likes: +102 Company: Aero Teknic Inc. Location: CYHU / Montreal St-Hubert
Aircraft: MU-2B-60, SR22,C182Q
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Username Protected wrote: The R seems to be a much better P210 (at least the price seems to reflect it). The owners I have talked to say they typically cruise 200 knots+ in the high teens and low flight levels. It has a longer wing, bigger tail, lighter control feel than the standard P210. Typical priced I have seen are between $300,000 and $350,000.
I have flown a P210R quite a bit in the last year or so. Compared to my P210N it is certainly a bit faster. The main advantage to the P210R is retaining FIKI with 115 gallons or so without resorting to a baggage tank. The biggest issue I found with the P210R is parts. There are many parts specific to the P210R and with so few produced, this makes availability of spares problematic. A Vitatoe Turbo-Normalized P210N conversion is faster and doesn't the spare parts issues. It's an expensive conversion ($95K ?) so you are near P210R territory in price. -Pascal
_________________ http://www.wi-flight.net/
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 15:59 |
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Joined: 10/27/10 Posts: 10790 Post Likes: +6891 Location: Cambridge, MA (KLWM)
Aircraft: 1997 A36TN
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Username Protected wrote: A Vitatoe Turbo-Normalized P210N conversion is faster and doesn't the spare parts issues. It's an expensive conversion ($95K ?) so you are near P210R territory in price. Yes, but the conversion includes an engine overhaul, so if you time it right, it's about half of that.
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 16:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Ah, but I am an A&P with a machine shop and do all of my own work Are you counting those costs as free? If so, what are you doing with a 177 when you should have some complex twin, since maintenance is basically free? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 16:36 |
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Joined: 04/29/13 Posts: 754 Post Likes: +542
Aircraft: C177RG, ATOS-VR
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Username Protected wrote: Ah, but I am an A&P with a machine shop and do all of my own work Are you counting those costs as free? If so, what are you doing with a 177 when you should have some complex twin, since maintenance is basically free? Mike C.
Because I am saving my money for an MU-2, why stop part way there? I been to the last 2 PROPs. Done the icing video, getting all my ducks in a row. I will probably attend next year's maintenance class, I should be retired by then and have the time available.
Vince
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 15 Sep 2015, 16:52 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 2761 Post Likes: +2605 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: Walk up to a 210 or Mirage with your passengers and see which one they like, especially if they sit in the back seats. If your going to spend that kind of money get an air stair or at least barn doors on a 58 Then, if you're over 6'3" or so, sit in both. I just flat don't fit in the Malibu.... I know some guys my size do, but for whatever reason (long torso or something) it's just a poor fit for my frame. Robert
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 17 Sep 2015, 23:44 |
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Joined: 07/02/13 Posts: 3158 Post Likes: +3090 Location: Stamping Ground, Ky
Aircraft: twin bonanza
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Here ya go... Attachment: image.jpg Username Protected wrote: $250,000 for a nice 58P. Fly it "for free" forever. Yup, that's another way to look at it.... Do you pull a 58P out for a pancake run on Saturday morning????? Of course I could do that and then put 100 AMU in a panel, 30 AMU to paint it and have quite the plane.... 
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 18 Sep 2015, 05:20 |
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Joined: 06/08/12 Posts: 12581 Post Likes: +5188 Company: Mayo Clinic Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
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Username Protected wrote: I just want to the hear the radio calls with that one, "Red Baron"  Good one! I already have the white silk scarf I use on my motorcycle...... 
_________________ BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18
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Post subject: Re: 500 AMU, Single, , FIKI Pressurised? Posted: 18 Sep 2015, 05:54 |
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Joined: 11/15/09 Posts: 1856 Post Likes: +1353 Location: Red Deer, Alberta (CRE5/CYQF)
Aircraft: M20E/Bell47
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Username Protected wrote: I just want to the hear the radio calls with that one, "Red Baron"  Good one! I already have the white silk scarf I use on my motorcycle......  You could go after Jeanne sitting on the back of her airplane (like Snoopy on his dog house)
Glenn
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