No doubt a "new" Phenom 300 at $9MM that will sell at $6MM in 3 years is a big loss. I wouldn't buy a new one. But I do know guys that do. You only live once.

How may XLS's does Cessna sell a year? Or would you think most go to charter companies that use 2 pilots anyways?

How many G150's does Gulfstream sell a year? You don't see them very often.

The fractional companies pick up a good percentage of the market for new airplanes. Being an ex fractional pilot, I wouldn't want one of their airplanes once they are done with them.

I would love to see where or how these insurance numbers are derived. I'm not aware of ANY situation where a V being flown SP even by a moderately qualified pilot would equate to a $30k insurance premium. Reminds me of the thread a couple months ago where the gent noted buying a CJ4 and was going to end up paying $100k for insurance

I think if you ask Mark Hangen he has some fairly recent SP insurance numbers for the Citation 560 class and they are no where near 30k (based of course on his experience level and the limits and insured value he requested).

Thanks Tom, I need to research this with my insurance company. It sounded high but Alex's level of research was impressive so I went with it. Hoping to go see Mark later this week, maybe I'll get to meet Luc and see the Red Bo too.

I would love to see where or how these insurance numbers are derived. I'm not aware of ANY situation where a V being flown SP even by a moderately qualified pilot would equate to a $30k insurance premium. Reminds me of the thread a couple months ago where the gent noted buying a CJ4 and was going to end up paying $100k for insurance

I think if you ask Mark Hangen he has some fairly recent SP insurance numbers for the Citation 560 class and they are no where near 30k.

I carry $50MM smooth (Fifty Million) for my $3.5MM Pilatus and it's under $25K a year.

This post is kinda gay.

That is a great policy for sure and you are definitely in the 1 percentile of PC12 owner/operators flying SP achieving that limit. Well done....

That is a great policy for sure and you are definitely in the 1 percentile of PC12 owner/operators flying SP achieving that limit. Well done....

I have close to 100 PC12's insured so yes it is true.

You are flying the sh&t out of your airplane which doesn't hurt. Your broker also has clearly done some nice work for you with getting you that limit as carriers don't generally allow $50m for any owner flying SP - it was definitely an accommodation which is a good thing.

No doubt true but really rubs me the wrong way. I love how because I "own it" that means I don't have what it takes to run it in the insurance co's eyes.

I wish they had a Pilatus Olympics because I would dominate all.

I would love to see where or how these insurance numbers are derived. I'm not aware of ANY situation where a V being flown SP even by a moderately qualified pilot would equate to a $30k insurance premium. Reminds me of the thread a couple months ago where the gent noted buying a CJ4 and was going to end up paying $100k for insurance

I think if you ask Mark Hangen he has some fairly recent SP insurance numbers for the Citation 560 class and they are no where near 30k.

An owner flown, single pilot, single engine getting $50M in liability coverage?

For $25K?

I will file this under "needs verification before I will believe it".

Mike C.

Mike - I wouldn't doubt it. A newer aircraft, proficient pilot, simulator based recurrent training - sure it's possible but definitely not the norm for an owner/pilot flying SP in that class of equipment. It is likely that limit was obtained after the first or second policy renewal and not the initial policy when he was transitioning. The single-engine has nothing to do with the limits. There is no difference in insurability between a PC12 at X value and a King Air 200 at the same value. So SEL vs MEL does not play into what limits or pricing is available. I have an owner/pilot operating a Phenom 100 single-pilot who we secured $25m limits for this year - he doesn't even have 1,000 hrs TOTAL TIME yet in his logbook and he transitioned from an SR22 at 400 hrs total time.

We once had a very prominent client in his early 80's who owned a GIIB. This client wanted to continue to fly it with his professional pilot and be insurable at X liability limit and X hull coverages (it was a GII afterall so it was right around when that market plummeted in value). None of the insurance companies would write the policy based on his age and what he wanted for coverage. The story ended up that he picked a few of us up in the airplane and we flew from St. Paul down to Atlanta - had a round table meeting with the chief underwriting officier of the insurer - and left the table with the insurance he wanted but with a $1m retention on the liability (deductible). Anything is possible but Jason's policy definitely falls in the 1%.

Bet he paid more than $25K for that...

The Phenom 100 just had a high liability event which was owner flown, single pilot, and seemingly pilot caused. 5 people other than the pilot were killed. 3 of which were on the ground. That one event could easily end up being a $25M event.

Assuming half of premiums end up as payouts, a $50M event with a $25K premium means you need to write 4000 policies. The numbers don't seem to add up, IMO.

Mike C.