Absolutely incorrect. RVSM LOA issuance is free.

Absolutely incorrect. RVSM LOA issuance is free.

Owning a jet sounds like a big expensive learning curve. I mentioned that I was going to get a type rating with Mark Hangen - we started down that path thinking we could get a SP rating for about 15K and it quickly morphed to much much more. Same steep curve on ownership costs - if you don't know how to manage maintenance and go to the big service centers, its sounds very expensive.

I graduated from a 170K baron to a $1.7M KA (to be fair, this is after the engines are done). You can also add a zero to the all of the other expenses associated with the KA. No reasonable financial advisor would look at my income and think owning a KA is a good idea (I never thought it was a good financial decision either but it was a great life decision)

Continuing on my path of bad decisions, I have this (likely unreasonable) hope that I could fly a Citation for the same cost as the KA but I don't think that's exactly the way to think about it. I do believe that after I made a bunch of expensive mistakes in maintaining a Citation (I made some of these with the KA too), then I could probably own one for a cost (per nm) comparable to a KA. I also have to keep in mind that Dave S has a lot more reasonably convienent options living in Dallas (with a population of about 4,700,000) than I do in Ridgway, Colorado (with about 800).

If you factor all of this jet BS in, then the Piaggio Avanti looks even better. No type rating, standard PT6's that can be serviced at Walmart, half the fuel, faster, further etc.

Craig, I've not been able to convince Crandall to get one, so now my hope is to you. I need to live vicariously through someone. Get one! *waves hand in front of Craigs face with Jedi mind trick motion*

Thanks John. That's what I meant. There are also just a bunch of miscellaneous things that add up when purchasing any plane; with a jet, it's probably higher because of the hull value. We have an occasional seller option here in Texas to avoid sales tax, but I'm seeing more planes through brokers in the jet arena. Not saying I can't find one in Texas through an individual, but not as easy as the props. So, I may have sales tax. Many of the legacy planes have old avionics. So, there is a cost to upgrade. Many of the more affordable jets have engine times closer to TBO. As a matter of fact, one can almost price them by a base air frame time plus remaining engine time to TBO. Training is more and there is an annual recurrent requirement. I'm flying crewed. To get the single pilot waiver, I'll need another check ride. Some of these older systems, like the Honeywell EFIS can be pretty pricy to repair. More systems on the jet. Thrust reversers are another system to maintain. Etc.
Just a lot to consider.
I have dry leasing alternatives which are interesting, but you do lose something any time you're leasing it. Owner has priority and maintains. One I'm looking at and the one I'm currently using aren't at my home field. Just a lot of considerations. I do like leasing to get my feet wet and so I'm not pushed to buy a plane quickly.

John L.: I took a different approach to jet training than many. Wasn't in a hurry and was going to purchase or lease one anyway, so I wasn't as sensitive to the cost to lease and train in a plane as some that need to get it done in minimum time. Going to the big sim schools required 14 consecutive days or more of training. Very difficult for me to take off work that many days in a row. Those schools aren't cheap and they seemed to be more geared to the pro pilots. I went to a short school to get familiar, took some trips in a plane to see if it fit, trained in the plane more, then went to a school to finish. Probably have 30 hours of jet time now. It seemed to puzzle some folks. It's what I wanted to do. Now, I'll fly with a co-pilot for awhile. If comfortable, I'll go back and get the single pilot waiver.
Looking at a II tomorrow to see if I can work out a dry lease with a friend that's only flying his about 50 hours a year.

We could cut the guy a break but he has some explanation to do.




Keith said he married well.

Cut the guy a break.

You talk to folks about the ACM (Air Cycle Machine) in the early Citations? What it's TBO is (5000 hours I think) and what the cost to OH is? Some early Citations have one ACM and some two. Lots of owners don't bother with the 5000 hour OH.

You really have to get a handle on the OH status and potential future cost of many systems and parts. That takes an advisor knowledgeable in the specific type aircraft. Knowing your planned utilization and the maintenance status of an aircraft you should be able to project out costs within a range for the next few years. Most of the costs are fairly predictable.

Yes Allen. Our guys go through and outline when all inspections have been done and when the next are due: some are time, some are hours as in the King Air. There are also time and cycle limited items like impellers. Some planes are on engine programs and some on Cescom. All things to take into consideration. Another good reason for me to lease and take my time looking at planes to purchase.

Ok Keith... This is really cuckoo. I'm not trying to be detective, but I'm going to have to call you on this one.

Turns out N154GV (serial number 154), a CJ4 which belonged to Cessna, was recently sold....

....but to Japan's Civil Aviation Bureau (http://corporatejetinvestor.com/article ... -cj4s-224/) and it is in fact being painted by Cessna over at Duncan! Unless you are planning to fly on a Japenese registration, this is all a BS story.

These fantasies have to stop! You are wasting everyones time on this forum.

Busted. The Jeff's need to terminate this guys account.

Ok Keith... This is really cuckoo. I'm not trying to be detective, but I'm going to have to call you on this one.

Turns out N154GV (serial number 154), a CJ4 which belonged to Cessna, was sold to Japan's Civil Aviation Bureau (http://corporatejetinvestor.com/article ... -cj4s-224/) and it is in fact being painted by Cessna over at Duncan. Unless you are planning to fly on a Japenese registration, this is all a BS story. These fantasies have to stop! You are wasting everyones time on this forum.

I can see it now.

My father was a GI who married into a very wealthy Japanese family. We will be leasing the airplane to the Japanese Aviation Ministry for 3 years until it is paid for by the lease payments thereby restoring my $150,000,000 net worth.

Gotta love the internet..

Keith, I still want to know if you are buds with Jack Rebney