BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2019, 19:00

Username Protected wrote:

Otherwise, position holders who get a G2 are getting a plane which surpasses the original contract.

How does that work? if I am a 1.3m position holder and I elect for a G2, you're saying my base price is still 1.3 (plus cpi) ? Or is there a 1m add on fee for the G2 features (plus cpi) ?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2019, 19:25

Username Protected wrote:

Who/how many make up the "early" position holders?

Not known exactly.

The "early" positions were offered at $1.39M+CPI, the price announced in 2009.

Based on what has been advertised on controller.com, the "early" position holders with $1.39M contracts were well into the high 300s position, so they represent the majority of contracts. By 2013, the price rose to $1.96M and the order book was about 450 at that time.

So my best guess would be ~450 are at the early price, remainder at $1.96M.

People getting SF50s now put a deposit down in 2007 or so without knowing the final price. I believe the deposits were refundable at that time, which was changed in later contracts.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2019, 19:42

Speaking of positions; get your orders in now! 9 more pages and I'm jacking the price.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2019, 20:44

~ dec/14
viewtopic.php?p=1295069#p1295069

Username Protected wrote:

There is no airplane in the world easier to sell to a wife than the sf50. Jet chute looks like a car. Relatively cheap.

Sell? Yes.

Delivery? No.

If aviation was defined by what could be sold, it would look a lot different than it does today. For example, Moller flying car.

Unfortunately, the laws of physics, the realities of economics, and the regulatory environment of aviation determine what exists.

The SF50 is a crippled, gas guzzling, slow speed, short range, expensive toy. The only thing it is good for is to show off to others that you have a jet. A pilot who buys it for that reason alone is not somebody I want to fly with. If they have other reasons, they will buy something else more useful.

When the short range and low payload become apparent, the plane will either be an embarrassment to its owner when he has to explain to his non pilot friends that they can't come or he has to stop for fuel every hour, or he will fly overgross anyway, perhaps emboldened by knowing he has a chute, subjecting his friends to a risk they aren't aware of.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2019, 20:57

Username Protected wrote:

Sell? Yes.

Delivery? No.

If aviation was defined by what could be sold, it would look a lot different than it does today. For example, Moller flying car.

Unfortunately, the laws of physics, the realities of economics, and the regulatory environment of aviation determine what exists.

The SF50 is a crippled, gas guzzling, slow speed, short range, expensive toy. The only thing it is good for is to show off to others that you have a jet. A pilot who buys it for that reason alone is not somebody I want to fly with. If they have other reasons, they will buy something else more useful.

When the short range and low payload become apparent, the plane will either be an embarrassment to its owner when he has to explain to his non pilot friends that they can't come or he has to stop for fuel every hour, or he will fly overgross anyway, perhaps emboldened by knowing he has a chute, subjecting his friends to a risk they aren't aware of.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jan 2019, 01:56

Username Protected wrote:

Think of how cool it would be if it went to FL410, 60 knots faster, burned less fuel, had more range, and you didn't die if the engine quit at 400 ft AGL?

Wow, that would be AWESOME! But that sounds so hard to do!

Nope, Eclipse did it 12 years ago...

Mike C.

Yet they went into chapter 7 bankruptcy. The successor in the project managed to sell a grand total of 27 pieces of the successor aircraft before they folded as well.

'Cool' doesn't seem to do the trick.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jan 2019, 02:01

Username Protected wrote:

Yet they went into chapter 7 bankruptcy.

They missed the Chinese buying spree that was to come.

In any case, the point is that building such an airplane is obviously doable since it has been done.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jan 2019, 02:10

Username Protected wrote:

Yet they went into chapter 7 bankruptcy.

They missed the Chinese buying spree that was to come.

In any case, the point is that building such an airplane is obviously doable since it has been done.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jan 2019, 04:39

Username Protected wrote:

Speaking of positions; get your orders in now! 9 more pages and I'm jacking the price.

I might wait for the G2 version....

Andrew

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jan 2019, 05:10

Username Protected wrote:

Speaking of positions; get your orders in now! 9 more pages and I'm jacking the price.

I might wait for the G2 version....

Andrew

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jan 2019, 08:24

Username Protected wrote:

Lame excuse.

Eclipse Aerospace got all the IP, type certificate etc. for 20m. They upgraded the plane and still couldn't sell enough of them to make it a successful venture. Its not a question of lack of chinese money, there doesn't seem to be a market for what you want to sell.

Welcome to 300 pages ago.

It's futile. There's no logic in Mikes argument.