Just thinking..... Beech will have to watch out if cirrus makes something that will be a competitor to the king air.

Funny coming from a person on a Beech forum.

The number I posted on the Internet was that it cost Cirrus 120 million to develop the SR20. Who in their right mind would spend that kind of money to develop a plane that maybe you could sell 60-100 per year. Cirrus is only building 250 ish per year now.

This is why you only see small improvements to an existing design. It's just not worth it to do a clean sheet design. The problem with Beechcraft is that they are wed to a relatively cramped cabin.

Range, payload or speed. Pick any two you want. We only have piston engines that put out 350 hp or less. If you want all three, you have to have more power and it means a turbine.

Pilots are a manufactures biggest nightmare. We simple crash perfectly good planes too much of the time. We under insure ourselves and wonder why our loved ones sue the manufacture of the plane.

I think it's kind of funny that the guys flying "fork tailed doctor killers" are bagging on the cirrus crowd. I'd love to see how your partial panel skills are doing. Sure, the guy sounds shaky, at least he didn't make a hole in the ground.

Cirrus listened to their customers and made changes. A whole new chute, strengthened airframe and modified flaps got an additional 200 useful load. What has Beechcraft done to get you 200 pounds? The market is changing. The people who can afford a new plane want AC, FIKI, leather interior that matches the car they drive. They want to avoid touching shoulders with the person sitting next to them. They don't care about how the plane flies because they paid for a trick autopilot to do that.

The chute may not be a big deal for you, but it sold 5100+ airframes in 15 years or so. I find that a lot of the "why did he pull the chute" stuff comes from folks like myself who don't have the option. I would much rather drop vertically into a school than plow into the side of a school doing 60 kts.

I think that's the key. There is debate about each and every chute pull as to whether it was a "righteous" pull. It's easy to arm-chair quarterback those decisions.

As far as I can remember, nobody on the ground has been crushed under a Cirrus that arrived via parachute. There are many times I wish I had a chute on board (like last Sunday as I flew over mountains with all IMC below me...). In the unlikely event of an engine failure there, I would face near-certain death in my plane, but would have faced near-certain life in a Cirrus.

I love my Debonair.

I wonder how the new part 23 rewrite will affect both sides of his discussion.

My comment was based on the Bonanza being the old doctor killer with dumb ass pilots flying them or so said people who couldn't afford them. There are dumb ass pilots in all planes. I found your comment unusual since most Beech pilots I have met have had a lot of sympathy for Cirrus owners and unfounded generalizations. I came to this forum because I have found a lot of posters very even handed even when discussion things they didn't like about the Cirrus. Besides, my best friend has an awesome V-tail and has been tracking the DFC90 development closely. He is currently very bummed that it requires Stec servos.

Funny coming from a person on a Beech forum.

Folks around here seem to ooh and ahh over the Starship and it's a "plastic plane" isn't it?

I really doubt the people at Beech are idiots as described, and I also doubt that any of our suggestions are lost on them. More likely they are just out of money, got caught in a down cycle that was tough to weather, are running on a skeleton crew which is further compounding the problem. The reality is they probably need a bunch of cash, even if it comes from China. Their best bet is probably to certify a new single engine turbo prop to compete with the Pilatus and the TBM. They are probably holding onto the Bonanza more for their own nostalgia than financial reasons.

Folks around here seem to ooh and ahh over the Starship and it's a "plastic plane" isn't it?

Great question....

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78174&p=935107#p935107

... make sense for Beech to spin off the Bonanza line.

I suspect that Bonanza, Inc. would have to adopt the same business model as Mooney.

Are their any FAA-certified 285-400 HP diesels?

Yeah -- I don't get the point of all those avionics.

I mean, I own and fly a Citation Jet. We just flew a big long 2 week round robin trip around the county -- and we (pretty much) had lousy weather the whole time. We put more than 40 hours on the jet and flew in *all* sorts of weather -- I mean, we shot 3 ILS approaches to minimums [one in CYOW], flew non-precision approaches without radar coverage (KMAL), flew DME arcs, flew lots of T-Storms. We flew in northern Canada, we flew in NYC. I mean, we basically did it all.

Know what we had for avionics? We had a (one!) GNS400, a King color radar, foreflight and steam gauges. No MFD. No PFD/EFIS. No WAAS. All analog equipment. That Sperry autopilot will fly and ILS to minimums no sweat. Turbulence -- no problem.

So, a twin engine jet can scoot around the country @ 360kts and FL410 in complete safety using one GNS400, a 1970's vintage auto pilot, two ipads and two six packs... Why is a piston single engine airplane "all about the avionics"?

I mean, we don't have a six pack or an "overbank" corrector or a parachute -- and I would put the safety record of the Citation over that of the Cirrus any day of the week.

And its more comfortable.

And its cheaper to buy! I mean, 500k will get you a really nice 500 series citation...

I mean -- I love all the wiz bang avionics and all -- but I don't see why you would wan to *pay* for them...

Am I crazy?

When I bought my Bonanza, I never serioulsy looked at a Cirrus, it wasn't in my price range unless I wanted to look at an SR20. After some friends flew their RV-10 to Duluth to fly an SR-22 they all said they would never consider one. For me it came down to a Bonanza or the RV-10. I found a beautiful Bonanza for a price I was willing to pay and I'm very happy with my decision. For me an $800,000 airplane is out of the question, some people have to have new but as stated before for that kind of money the used market is full of fantastic airplanes.

Jim:

I love the fact that you made the leap and bought the Citation. Permanent man-card for doing that.

"We just flew a big long 2 week round robin trip"

I'm guessing that in part the purpose of the trip was to burn off some insurance required dual time. Well done! Soon, you'll be on your own.

For the rest of us stuck at 12,000', with only one engine (or little margin if one of two quits), having the extra resources on board is a way to manage the risks of single pilot piston operations.

Of course, you might help us see the light by giving some local BT bro's a ride in that screamer someday...