BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 10:46

If anyone has done a full Garmin panel upgrade on an Avanti I, can you provide your estimated cost and the shop that did it?

I'm looking at an Avanti II or I, but if I go for an early one I might want to upgrade before we even start flying it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 11:47

Username Protected wrote:

If anyone has done a full Garmin panel upgrade on an Avanti I, can you provide your estimated cost and the shop that did it?

I'm looking at an Avanti II or I, but if I go for an early one I might want to upgrade before we even start flying it.

I almost went this route but decided that the extra maintenance of the older birds "might" be an issue. I know others on this forum that went this route and it hasn't been so far, so YMMV.

The cost is between 225 - 250K all in if you are starting from a PL2 panel alone. You DO have to keep the old ADC instruments for now but they are working on deleting that in the future ( They being Intercontinental Jet). ICJS is the ones to contact for this.

Be sure and check corrosion carefully and SB compliance in the older birds. Other than that they are essentially the same. The first 12 numbers of the older birds had a 2650 lb fuel capacity limitation as well that couldn't be changed so if its range you need thats a consideration too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 11:49

Username Protected wrote:

I flew to KPBI yesterday to begin training at Flight Safety. I'd agreed to bring a couple of pilots back to their plane and drop them off at NW Florida Regional on the way down which we did. Unfortunately Sheltair was slammed when we go there and had to wait about an hour for our fuel order. So, we ate lunch in the pilot's break room.

I just picked up my plane from ICJS yesterday morning after they finished the LPV install on the the PL21 so KECP was the first chance to try it out. Like a rock! So, I guess that $76,000 investment was worth it...

Last night my training partner told me one of the pilots we ferried wasn't feeling well and it might mess up his schedule and he might have to bug out. I suggested the pilot get tested. We started ground school this morning and had two guys from Poland in class. One an EASA equivalent of DPE on the Piaggio so class was interesting. At the end of lunch my training partner got a call from the pilot. Positive. Crap.

We told our program manager, got our stuff and got out of there. We spent several hours in a small plane with that guy and in a small break room for an hour. And my training partner hadn't slept well last night and had chills. Deciding we'd rather be sick at home we checked out of the hotel and bugged out.

The weather in OKC was crappy today with sleet, freezing rain, etc. Tomorrow is forecasted to be worse. With 90 knots on the nose and just under 1100 nm we made it back in just under 4 hours and landed with 570 pounds burning just over 2100. The last half hour was interesting as we staying high and came down quickly to max fuel and flew in and out of ice. The plane doesn't seem to even know it's got a quarter inch on it.

The ILS was easy peasy down to 300 feet. Glad we picked the ILS this time instead of the LPV (might have had to go around and low on fuel I didn't want to do that) except I couldn't see out the copilot's side at all as it got covered in ice. No big deal except when I was trying to turn right off the runway. Taxiing by Braille...

Leaving it with the Meta FBO at Wiley Post as they could hangar (and my Best Tug isn't here yet so I can't get it in my hangar) I headed home. I live 25 minutes from the airport and got the call when almost home that I'd left the brakes on...Crap. So, back I go. My training partner was driving home to Tulsa and I didn't beat him home by much.

Tomorrow I get to go get tested and maybe quarantine for a while. At least I have my 300 pound Flight Safety manual to read while I do.

The more I fly the P180 the more I like it!

Damn Tony I hope it all turns out well. Most likely you will be fine and uninfected as you were at the front of the airplane and hopefully your infected passenger was in the big seats (which are more than 6' away - a LOT more!)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 15:28

Thanks, I'll give them a buzz on the upgrade and get some more info from them.

If any Piaggio owners fly into Harrisburg PA, drop me a note if your willing to meet up and talk about your plane. Would love to get some owner feedback.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 16:22

Username Protected wrote:

Damn Tony I hope it all turns out well. Most likely you will be fine and uninfected as you were at the front of the airplane and hopefully your infected passenger was in the big seats (which are more than 6' away - a LOT more!)

Got a rapid and regular test yesterday. Rapid was negative. Waiting on regular. I feel perfectly fine so hoping for the best. The guy that had it appeared to be perfectly fine then started developing symptoms a few hours later. He's doing ok with just mild symptoms. The issue for me at this point is I can't get back to FSI until January.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 16:29

Username Protected wrote:

If anyone has done a full Garmin panel upgrade on an Avanti I, can you provide your estimated cost and the shop that did it?

I'm looking at an Avanti II or I, but if I go for an early one I might want to upgrade before we even start flying it.

I almost went this route but decided that the extra maintenance of the older birds "might" be an issue. I know others on this forum that went this route and it hasn't been so far, so YMMV.

The cost is between 225 - 250K all in if you are starting from a PL2 panel alone. You DO have to keep the old ADC instruments for now but they are working on deleting that in the future ( They being Intercontinental Jet). ICJS is the ones to contact for this.

Be sure and check corrosion carefully and SB compliance in the older birds. Other than that they are essentially the same. The first 12 numbers of the older birds had a 2650 lb fuel capacity limitation as well that couldn't be changed so if its range you need thats a consideration too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 20:41

Username Protected wrote:

I do like the higher gross weight of the II at 12,100 pounds, the panel is better laid out in the II and the B motors give a little more performance. But, these things are so good either works incredibly well.

There is a service bulletin (SB 80-0215R15) which increases MTOW of Avanti Is to 12,100 lbs. It's basically an inspection, higher tire pressure and placards - plus the usual log entry. Easy peasy and a no-brainer for any operator. Many Avanti Is have already been converted. The Is and IIs really are structurally identical.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 20:58

The thread outlines costs of upgrade. I have the gross weight increase and the added fuel.

Cool plane. Denver to Harrisburg in 3:15 today. Saw 1nm/lb thanks to tailwind.

One negative of the plane, it gets chilly up front on long flights at high altitude. Even with cockpit heat on I was cold by the end of today’s flight.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 22:05

Do you ever pull the props back on the piaggio? Looks like they are always close to redline in the pictures?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2020, 23:43

Username Protected wrote:

Congrats to all the BT guys now flying the really cool Avanti. While I’m not in that club I definitely think Adam F deserves a round of applause for always bringing up the qualities of this unique aircraft back when no one else did. I have been thinking about this aircraft and the altitudes/speed regime in flys in and realized I have never heard of an inflight breakup of an Avanti. Is this the case? A tough bird. Hope y’all enjoy it.

(we need a wine glass clinking emoji for Adam!)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2020, 04:59

Username Protected wrote:

Do you ever pull the props back on the piaggio? Looks like they are always close to redline in the pictures?

No. It’s slightly quieter at 1800 rpm but I prefer the frequency of 2000. The difference is really subtle and the plane is faster at 2000 so I stay there.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2020, 09:12

Username Protected wrote:

Do you ever pull the props back on the piaggio? Looks like they are always close to redline in the pictures?

If you’ll look carefully at photo I pasted on last page mine are at 1810. That’s all the way to the first stop. Won’t get to exactly 1800 there for some reason but it is noticeably quieter in the back. Up front it isn’t noticeable as it’s already very quiet.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2020, 21:08

[quote="Anthony Pigliacampo"][/quote]
The picture shows a big difference in torque between left and right engines, when all the other parameters are very close. Why the difference?

Vince

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2020, 21:34

WOW! I'm stunned to see talk of the P-180 here. It is without question a marvelous airplane. Anthony, I'm curious, which serial number do you have?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2020, 21:45

If interested, I may have some lurking around in some old files that you Piaggio guys may be interested in. Stuff like, the post completions test flight procedures, Piaggio America factory pilot checklist (it's a flow developed by the flight crew at Piaggio America) You might like it or you might ditch it. Normal procedures only. I probably have a W&B program for the I and the II... unofficially. It works very well. Everything I have is at least eleven years old but it's good stuff.