BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2019, 21:32

Username Protected wrote:

Phenom 100 = Entry level turbine

Phenom 100 = Entry level JET.

SF50= Entry level turbine.

FIFY..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2019, 21:41

What’s the fuel burn at 310?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2019, 23:24

Lol.

Game, Set, Match.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:07

Username Protected wrote:

305 ktas at FL 310, with a corresponding reduction in fuel burn at the higher altitude, which results in a range increase of 100 nm or an extra 170 pounds of payload on an 800 nm mission.

So we get that much benefit from 3000 more ft.

Now imagine how much better it could have been with 13000 more ft.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:16

Username Protected wrote:

You have no idea what the profit or loss on each airframe shipped may be.

It doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out.

Started at $1.39M. This is the price most of the position holders have.

A few years ago, went to $1.96M.

Now price is $2.38M base, $2.75M loaded.

Time to make a G2 and raise the price. Nearly all the changes are $0 extra per aircraft, only material thing is the autothrottle, which costs maybe $0.02M to add the servo (and AT was planned from the start, this isn't a "new" feature, but finally delivering on an old promise).

Pretty sure they aren't making money at $1.39M if it now costs more than double that now.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:24

Username Protected wrote:

So far on COPA, it has been well received. Even by existing position holders.

Did they state the new terms for their position? That will come out soon enough. Getting a G1 at their contract price is highly unlikely now.

Cirrus has found a way to offer, as the G2, stuff that was already promised (like AT), make a few minor tweaks of no cost otherwise, and charge more than a $1M more for it. As a plus, there will be a chorus singing their praises for being so innovative that the they held back these tweaks until now.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:28

Username Protected wrote:

I get it that they have language in the contract to permit this, but some might see it as weaseling out of delivering a $1.5MM airplane at a loss

That is exactly what this is, the minimum number of no cost tweaks Cirrus can do to create a new generation with a new price.

It is all about the setting of a new price.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:32

Username Protected wrote:

Cirrus has found a way to offer, as the G2, stuff that was already promised (like AT), make a few minor tweaks of no cost otherwise, and charge more than a $1M more for it. As a plus, there will be a chorus singing their praises for being so innovative that the they held back these tweaks until now.

Mike C.

How is this different from every other aircraft, car, boat, microwave, cell phone, ect., ect., ect., ect.,ect........
Sorry Mike, you have beat this horse to death, and it just keeps getting up and trotting off.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:39

Here ya go Mike. Maybe you can use this when your $1.5million Ciholas twinjet goes to market. I'll buy serial number 2 ( Jason has dibs on the first one...)
https://www.dummies.com/business/market ... -strategy/

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:40

Username Protected wrote:

How is this different from every other aircraft, car, boat, microwave, cell phone, ect., ect., ect., ect.,ect........

People already signed a contract for one price, and now it is different.

It would be like Apple saying "sign this contract and pay us $800 and you will get the next iPhone when it comes out". Later it comes out, and they want to charge you $1500 for it instead.

Cirrus has broken its contract with position holders.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:42

Username Protected wrote:

How is this different from every other aircraft, car, boat, microwave, cell phone, ect., ect., ect., ect.,ect........

People already signed a contract for one price, and now it is different.

It would be like Apple saying "sign this contract and pay us $800 and you will get the next iPhone when it comes out". Later it comes out, and they want to charge you $1500 for it instead.

Cirrus has broken its contract with position holders.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 00:57

Username Protected wrote:

Can I see the copy of the contract that you based this accusation on?

Attached.

Prior price that most position holders received was $1.39M. The attached contract was $1.96M which applied to contracts signed from about 2012 on.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 01:03

Username Protected wrote:

Can I see the copy of the contract that you based this accusation on?

Attached.

Prior price that most position holders received was $1.39M. The attached contract was $1.96M which applied to contracts signed from about 2012 on.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 02:11

Username Protected wrote:

Standard contract with CPI and upgrade clause.

A $1M price increase for the listed of minor changes is not an "upgrade", it is a repricing.

Quote:

Is there an aircraft manufacturer out there that is different?

Nearly doubling the price on already signed contracts?

Don't know any other manufacturer who has done that, so yes, other aircraft makers are different.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2019, 02:14

Username Protected wrote:

What’s the fuel burn at 310?

Less.

Seems about 10% less given the claims. Makes sense, the plane is about 10% higher.

Mike C.

Cirrus SF50