BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 16:28

Username Protected wrote:

thoughts on the 5 used ones on sale?

1 shows an easy price on this list
https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... ision-sf50
2017 CIRRUS VISION SF50
Jet Aircraft
Lone Mountain Aircraft Sales is proud to present this rare opportunity to own a Cirrus SF50 Vision Jet in 2018! N234HS is a gorgeous 2017 SF50 with 450 hours, Elite Package (All Options), Cargo X-Tend, ADS-B Weather & Traffic, and Cirrus Jetstream Premium/Concierge Package through 2020 or 600 h...
For Sale Price: USD $2,299,000

The guy flew it 600 hours and wants to sell.... make some money. 600 hours is a lot in a year

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 16:36

i'm new at the pricing, how it works, what it means, value etc so all ears on this part,

but someone looking or going there would run across something like this
https://www.aerista.com/vision-jet/

my first thoughts are wth is going on here?! why so complicated??

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 17:36

Username Protected wrote:

My guess is Cirrus will announce a twin jet, 7 seat plane in 2-3 years when the production rate of the SF50 falls off a cliff. They can't announce it now or the "magic" of the SF50 will be lost. Unfortunately for Cirrus it will have to be a complete clean sheet design, not just adding a G3000 to a CJ, and very little carry over from the SF50 so who knows when it could be released. My guess is they will use the SF50 as a sales tool to get people to put money down for the SF72 - Buy an SF50 today and lock in a price on the SF72...yada yada yada.

Chip-

Not a chance.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 18:41

Username Protected wrote:

I can't wait to see full year 2018 SF50 deliveries. When is that data released?

Cirrus closed out 2018 exceeding our production estimate of 50-60 aircraft, an estimate originally given in January of 2018. Cirrus delivered 63 Vision Jets between January and December of 2018.

The production estimate for 2019 is 80 aircraft, which would represent a 29% increase in deliveries.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 19:54

Username Protected wrote:

The guy flew it 600 hours and wants to sell.... make some money. 600 hours is a lot in a year

He may have flown 450hrs, but how far did he go with that thing that is so slow that the birds hit it from behind.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 20:22

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... light-line

Quote:

Paul Sallach, All in Aviation owner at North Las Vegas Airport, said he envisioned the perfect customer as someone who was already familiar with the Cirrus line but wanted to “go faster, farther, and higher” than they could in an SR22 propeller-driven aircraft. “They want pressurization and they want to go places.”

https://www.avbuyer.com/articles/new-pr ... fly-112218

Quote:

This is the Vision Jet, which sits in a class of its own – a single-engine personal jet aimed squarely at owner-pilots, though it also has the potential to shake up the lower-end of the private jet sector.

Familiarity was one prime objective when Minnesota-based Cirrus sketched out plans more than a decade ago for a small jet powered by a single turbofan.

The SF50 was part of a tide of optimism about an ever-growing market for jets, in the heady days before the global economic crash, that also gave birth to the Eclipse very light twin-jet and the Diamond and Piper single-engine jets.
------
Given the pricing ($1.96m base price, and $2.4m typically equipped) demand is likely to remain strong from Cirrus piston plane owners seeking to trade up, and those turned-off by the high price of more conventional Light jets.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 22:39

Username Protected wrote:

The guy flew it 600 hours and wants to sell.... make some money. 600 hours is a lot in a year

He may have flown 450hrs, but how far did he go with that thing that is so slow that the birds hit it from behind.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 23:38

Username Protected wrote:

but someone looking or going there would run across something like this
https://www.aerista.com/vision-jet/

This part was interesting:

"What are ‘Optional Equipment Credits’?
Cirrus will be offering optional equipment for the SF50. Early position holders have accrued credits toward purchase of optional equipment. These credits are no longer transferable, as of February 2015."

I've heard that some "optional" things are not optional, Cirrus own't delivery the plane without them. Since the pricing of these required "options" is not controlled by contract, it represents a way to increase the price through a back door. Cirrus no longer transfers the credits for these options, which effectively makes the position more expensive for the next buyer.

It would be interesting to see an actual invoice/settlement for a delivery.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 23:41

Username Protected wrote:

I can't wait to see full year 2018 SF50 deliveries. When is that data released?

GAMA says they will issue a year end shipment report for 2018 on Feb 20, 2019.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 23:51

as far as the used market goes & what that may mean, last i heard..

Username Protected wrote:

I suspect this number is very low, probably single digits. If so, that means they have saturated the market at ~500 units, or the plane doesn't sell well based on its true merits. Given there are already a fair number of used aircraft for sale, I count 5 of them so far, about 8% of the fleet, there's no reason to sign a delivery contract with Cirrus.

Mike C.

i'm thinking ~ who cares about some lineup, figure the sales pitch out deal whatever when good used ones are ready to go?

what's the big secret about 'how much'?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2019, 23:58

Username Protected wrote:

i'm thinking ~ who cares about some lineup, figure the sales pitch out deal whatever when good used ones are ready to go?

The manufacturer cares since lack of continuing sales means the end of the production line when the order book is done. It also means they will stretch deliveries out so as to not reach the end too soon.

A truly successful aircraft program is one that sells as many units AFTER first delivery as they had booked prior to first delivery. For example, Mustang. That means at least as many people bought the real airplane as bought the brochure airplane.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2019, 00:00

Deleted

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2019, 00:14

i edited my above post with - what's the big secret about 'how much'?

i've seen 1# the rest call me, call me..!?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2019, 00:30

Username Protected wrote:

I have previously called this the TF60.

Basically take the SF50 fuselage, fix the horrible back end with a conventional tail, and hang two PW610F engines on it. It would embarrass the SF50 in performance in every category being faster, higher, longer range, shorter runway, and more efficient all at the same time.

Yep, and add $1MM to the price, because that's what it's going to take.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2019, 02:05

Username Protected wrote:

Yep, and add $1MM to the price, because that's what it's going to take.

To make the TF60 profitable? Likely.

But that's true of the SF50 as well.

Total program costs, development, manufacturing, support, and liability, I think the SF50 and TF60 are a wash. They will sell more TF60s.

Mike C.