What's 'up' is the useful load on the G5 cirrus which is truly a game-changer.






(funny enough, the UL on the NA SR22 is now right where the Pa24 left off 40 years ago )

Yes, Randy, mid-air collisions often result in deaths.

What's 'up' is the useful load on the G5 cirrus which is truly a game-changer.






(funny enough, the UL on the NA SR22 is now right where the Pa24 left off 40 years ago )

What the Jeffs didn't tell you when you joined is that they limit the number of posts for BT members that don't own a Beechcraft. You're almost to that limit now. You'll either need to create a new account with a fake name, or...

...

Wrong. Unsubstantiated. Common misconceptions....but wrong.

And what will BT say when Beech announces a composite aircraft?

Wrong. Unsubstantiated. Common misconceptions....but wrong.

And what will BT say when Beech announces a composite aircraft?

I doubt that the rump Beechcraft Corp has the capital to develop a composite 36, even if that were desirable (which it would not be to me). They're in the same boat as Mooney: out of ideas, out of money, almost out of time.

How much money did Cirrus have when it was drawn on a napkin?

Come up with a marketable/profitable design and the money will show up. Running a company from the bottom line up is for business students.

Maybe they should hire some dropouts...

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013 ... ale-yahoo/

When I picked up my A36 the first flight with passengers was 6 people 3 women, 3 men.
That same year I took my wife,father,sister,mother and myself with our luggage from Plant City,FL to Williamsburg Va, for vacation. I leave in the morning to fly myself and 4 passengers with bags to Key West from Clearwater FL, Can I do that in the newest most advanced Cirrus?

I Flew in a cirrus and it flew nice, the Cirrus instructor that I flew with told me of his narrow escape from death when the electronic trim went full nose down in flight and he had to fight it back to the ground. it took months for them to get it back in service.

I admit that I'm a geek I go for the latest and greatest when I see it. But I also know when and how to use technology and when to stay on a more traditional platform.

What I see as our greatest hurdle is useful load. Why do I have to get an older airplane to actually utilize the seats and storage in an airplane. Like the G36, or Piper. and the Cirrus is not even in the game with 5 or 6 people unless they are kids. So in my mind the only advantage for the cirrus is tech, When I show up with 5 passengers with bags or six adults no bags to your 3 or 4 with bags, how did the tech help bring more people and stuff.
Michael Chancey
N4198S 1975 A36
N5871L Grumman Traveler

Hardly.... especially in aviation. Try raising $$ for a new aircraft development program today. Certifying a new airplane from scratch is a formidable task but pales in comparison to the effort required to raise capital for new aircraft development programs.

So Beech is good to go then? No need to for anything new?

Hardly.... especially in aviation. Try raising $$ for a new aircraft development program today. Certifying a new airplane from scratch is a formidable task but pales in comparison to the effort required to raise capital for new aircraft development programs.

Randy,

There was a time when Beech airplanes were state of the art. As your post implies that was a long time ago.

Once upon a time Beech had the audacity to produce an airplane with NO HORIZONTAL CONTROL SURFACES! Can you believe that? Of course, then, it was run by a strong willed, visionary entrepreneur not a bunch of bureaucratic finance people with no vision or passion. Wait, this description of history reminds me of a current airplane builder(s) the Klapmeier's.

As Jesse pointed out, if there was a vision of a better aircraft, there would be the funding to build it. But there isn't (a vision).

I think it is a shame but I think Beech has essentially run out the string. They have come out of bankruptcy with a commitment to fewer planes but essentially no new ideas. There is not a product used on the face of the earth that has remained as essentially unchanged as these airplanes for this many decades. That is a testament to the brilliance, intentional and accidental, of the men and women who originally designed it. But even their brilliance didn't build a product that will be acceptable in the market place forever.

The Bonanza is a fabulous airplane. Mine is among the best equipped and most capable in existence. But next to the newest generation of Cirrus it is simply old. Trying to sell it in the marketplace, for a much higher price at that, is like trying to sell an 1980 Olds Toronado (and I miss Oldsmobile too) against a modern Lexus. Some may wish to continue to drive a Toronado. But many will want anti lock brakes, all wheel drive, electronic fuel injection, electric locks, windows and seats, etc.

You mentioned depreciation. And it is a real concern for any intelligent person. It sounds like you did well with your money. But I assure you that the money you put in your plane isn't there anymore if you tried to sell it today. And every G36 I've seen advertised for sale was significantly lower priced than a new one. Depreciation affects all these planes. That is the quintessential issue when buying new versus used. Used depreciates slower. But it still depreciates.

So we have made it to 36 pages and come to the the following conclusions about the posts:

-- People equate Cirrus and composites with RC Models
-- Anyone who believes that Cirrus makes cheap/weak crap has no idea what they are talking about
-- Beech is/has started to circle the drain
-- Beech is going to lead the way with a new composite based single engine turbo-prop and Cirrus has no idea what will hit them
-- After you test fly the new Cirrus, you never want to fly your Beech again
-- You can take 800K and rebuild a late 70s Bonanza and somehow think you will recover more of your money if you sell then the Cirrus will depreciate
-- You can only fit four people in a four place airplane so by definition it is inferior to a new six place airplane that can only take off with my fat but and one other person

Did I miss anything?

Tim