The few times I've been in the KA350 trying to thread the needle through El Paso, the plane's ceiling (and performance above 30,000') wasn't enough to top thunder bumpers and my luck always means I'm in the fun embedded ones. It's been doable, but takes work and the cabin is near 10,000'.

If we did it regularly, jet mission.

Just saying, trying to figure out what flight I have done in the last 2000 flight level hours that I would’ve made in the jet that I didn’t make in the turbo prop. As I said, I’ve only only canceled one flight. They deathly would’ve canceled more than that in a light jet without reverse particularly my many flights where the runway or taxiway friction has been poor to nil. Flights into 2400 to 2700 runways, going into Granby CO both directions in the summer afternoons depending on winds.

Many days when I’m flying into my Idaho airports, the airliners are delayed, certainly not going to see a bizjet coming in. The only airplanes flying in on the snow and ice in the morning on contaminated runways, are the turbo props, Medi flights, fedex and ameriflight cargo turbo props. No place for a jet. This is a few inches of glaze ice. Brakes don’t work. Just controlling speed with Forward and reverse thrust and very careful turning with a combination of differential breaking, no steering, and air over the rudder. But the hardest part of this is actually walking to and from the plane. Still trying to figure out all these flights. I’d be taking if I had a jet can think of quite a few that I would not take if I had a jet.

Ok, maybe a different topic, but someone mentioned 02.

I watch a bunch of Youtube videos with guys flying jets in the 40+ altitudes. Some single pilot and I don't see them wearing 02.

So to the jet folks here, flying either SP or with a non pilot in right seat, and youre 41K and above, you wearing a mask?

My useful load is 4000 lbs, full fuel 2800 lbs. So I could do it with about 2000 lbs payload and roughly 600 lb reserve (which is more than FAA requirement).


Likely. I do wish for your LUMP program.

Single pilots above FL350 must be on O2. This includes the remaining pilot of a 2-pilot aircraft if one pilot leaves his seat for any reason.

At least one pilot must be on O2 above FL410, regardless of the numbers of pilots.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/c ... ion-91.211

Single pilots above FL350 must be on O2. This includes the remaining pilot of a 2-pilot aircraft if one pilot leaves his seat for any reason.

At least one pilot must be on O2 above FL410, regardless of the numbers of pilots.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/c ... ion-91.211

Chuck I can do those trips in my F-150. Haha.

Sure you can fly through weather and all sorts of challenges that I am not required to when flying my jet.

Your plane is amazing and you utilize it very well. But that does not mean a jet is not better in just about every trip. Just flew to LA fork Provo in 1:40 with headwinds. Yes I could have made the trip in my Mirage but it would take longer and much higher risk. It’s all relative.

Mike

I’ll quit after this or it will be Chip v. Mike part 2. I chuckled to myself “here comes the M500 on ice pic” before it was posted…for the 10th time. I don’t buy it. Brakes don’t work…next sentence…steering with differential braking. Where are these 2400 ft runways that are perpetually ice covered so as to delay the airliners that would be coming to the 2400ft runway? It’s your story…you tell it.

You like this one better? I have dozens of these type pictures. 6 months out of the year many of the places I fly and with the times that I fly, early and late, I am dealing with contaminated runways and icy taxiways. I spent a good bit of time flying up towards the Arctic Circle. Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Iceland, the primary aircraft, flying up there are turbo props. I believe that is for a reason poor runway conditions are not the strong suit of a jet. Have people running them off the end of dry runways, even rain poses a challenge. Much less snow and ice.

Perfect analysis for my strategy with the MU2. When the winds picked up to about 50 knots, then you could fly lower with less penalty. At 100 knots, there wasn't any penalty.

Mike C.

Have to say I’m with Chuck on the contaminated and short runway issues. My flying is mostly in Wyoming with occasional trips to our place in Destin or Tahoe. Our business looked at jets several times and ran the numbers. We would cancel our clinics and surgical days a lot more if we attempted our business model in the Cessna M2’s we were considering and so we stuck with our King Airs and MU-2.
I also agree with Chuck that, like him, I haven’t had to cancel a trip for enroute convective activity, but I will say that for those 1100nm trips to Florida, a Jet at FL410 would absolutely make my life easier and I agree it would be safer than my MU-2 dodging storms in the mid to upper 20’s. That much said, for my current work missions, 300kts and 75gph with powerful reverse thrust and an overbuilt aircraft has served me well. The CapX and OpX are very nice in the Mits.
Maybe when I retire and my flights are mainly long trips between residences I’ll look at an older Citation, but it wil be hard to give up my trusty ride and by then, I might not be able to get insurance for either type

This is BS. I made a similar trip in my TBM 960, on the same day, through the same weather. Winds at FL300 were 67 kts, as you can see on the flysto screenshot below. I was IMC most of the time, but I never saw precip, never saw ice, and saw nothing more than mild turbulence. I was 2:30 flight time from Greensboro, and I burned 143 gallons, flying 570nm. I never had to make a deviation for weather. The entire flight was a non-event.

I have attached both flight paths, just so we can see that we’re talking the same weather.

You clearly have a high level of technical expertise, but your propensity to embellish facts diminishes your credibility. I don’t disagree that higher is sometimes better in terms of enroute weather avoidance, but this wasn’t an example where a jet made any appreciable difference.

I love FlySto - such a useful amount of data about each flight and even trends. All free.

Chip-

Not the same weather, not the same direction.

Post your tail number so we can all look at your data ourselves and check it out.


Not where I was. Maybe that was your headwind component and not the winds aloft?

I pulled the soundings for 12Z at FFC station for that time. FL300 was 260 at 108 knots, FL400 was 265 at 108 knots. Basically, the same, so flying lower wouldn't help one bit and it would put you in the turbulence and weather.

FL300 is 300 hPa, FL400 is about 188 hPa.

Those in the 400s had a much better time of it.


Clearly not the same conditions as we flew over. The airliners were constantly deviating around cells and reporting moderate turbulence. There was a lady controller who worked our sector for about 15 minutes and she was super busy handling all this.

Apparently, the different route and possibly different time made enough difference you didn't get the same conditions as we did. We were very grateful to not be flying in the 20s and 30s.

Mike C.

It’s odd that anyone (including me) cares what others want to justify. These discussions are a waste of time for the most part. Each person will argue how their aircraft of the best balance of performance and cost. And the fact is they are right. They have the plane they have for a reason. What makes sense to me may not make sense to someone else, but it does to me.

I am guilty as anyone trying to argue my position. But the more I read the back and forth the less sense it makes. I am glad guys like Chuck love their plane they own. A M600 is a crazy cool and advanced aircraft. If I saw Chuck on the ramp I would want to check out his ride and I would be geeking out on it.

Fact is we are all very fortunate to fly any plane. I remember being so proud and excited when I got my Saratoga, it was a dream come true. For me at the time it was the perfect plane. Nobody could have told me otherwise.

I don’t fly very often at night but tonight I was sitting there at FL360 and traffic was opposite direction right on my track 1000ft below me. It looked so damn cool going by with its lights flashing. Was one of the coolest things I have seen. I had a moment of realization that we are so lucky to be in a time that we can fly our own planes. I think any aircraft is damn cool.

No reason for any of us to justify to others why we fly what we do.

Every person on here is right about how great their plane is for them.

Mike