I am beginning to understand the frustration that others have expressed here.

1) Please explain to me how insurance and finance cost are not explicitly covered in the variable cost and capital cost line items?

2) I understand that a majority of buyers coming to brokers' offices are concerned with the age and carpet color of a jet. Now, please do me the kindness of understanding that these buyers make up under 1% of the audience we are serving through Beechtalk membership and readership.

-J

Sounds like someone is going to get a nice King Air at a low price while Mr. Banker has to go buy a more expensive airplane for no valid reason.

The ecosystem you play in is not the only one that exists for these planes. Lots of us are operating in ways that don't fit your world.

Mike C.

That’s going to be the type who hires someone to buy the airplane for them though, most probably

1) I'm not saying they're not, just saying that if you're going to compare a 1979 501 with a 2012 Meridian, you have to allow that the Meridian has value for the price delta, both in lower maintenance cost and in residual value. Like it or not, a 1979 jet is at the end of it's life. Think about a 1969 jet... how old that seems and then realize that in ten years, that is exactly how you will perceive a 1979 jet.

I'm simply addressing the obvious holes in an argument. I didn't say it made any sense to compare a Meridian and a 501, those who did have to accept that there's more to the story and that works for them isn't going top work for the majority of Meridian buyers.

2) I think we all have our perception of Beechtalk and what type of people are here, I personally came here because I thought it was a Beechcraft forum, I'm not sure where I got that because it turned out to be an MU2 forum... now it's a Citation V forum and every thread about any turbine aircraft get's hijacked and turned into a Citation thread.

As I have pointed out many times before, I don't think any of us really know who is reading and why, there are literally thousands of people who are reading that have never posted.

Your statement that "most buyers coming to broker's offices are concerned about carpet color and age of jets" makes no sense... I know a lot of brokers, I use to be a broker, there are brokers that sell all levels of airplanes from antique Piper Cubs to Gulfstream 650ER's.

This thread was about buying a Meridian, so I don't think your 1% rule applies here... I think most people that find this thread, find it because they are looking to learn more about Meridians.

Sounds like someone is going to get a nice King Air at a low price while Mr. Banker has to go buy a more expensive airplane for no valid reason.

The ecosystem you play in is not the only one that exists for these planes. Lots of us are operating in ways that don't fit your world.

Mike C.

That’s going to be the type who hires someone to buy the airplane for them though, most probably

But even so many of those costs can vary wildly between owners. My mechanic charges $100/hr and is on-field. My hangar is $495/month. I currently pay $4.35/gallon for fuel. These costs will vary wildly from one location to the next. Likewise insurance varies wildly based on age and experience of the pilot plus hull value, liability limits, and age of the aircraft.

We are just going around and around. People should be free to come here and post their actual experiences and let people be their own judge. Nothing on this site constitutes financial advice, do your own research, etc, etc.

Finally, I for one am glad that people buy new planes so they can turn into old planes and I can afford to buy them.

You didn't necessarily defend Stevens, you blindly defended them and dismissed my direct evidence as a former customer of theirs and then seemingly abandoned your own thread when it no longer served your interests

I received quite a few PM's on that one, so I'm confident in saying that I'm not alone there

( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=208099 )

I do recall inquiring and speaking with you about your business model, because I also didn't understand it then- your fee structure was nonsensical to me so we abandoned the discussion, later I casually mentioned the airframe that I had selected and you implied that any airframe with logbook showing work done outside of the US was suspect to fraud, which is a comment that I still scratch my head over.

But then you asserted that oil was from dinosaurs and my head no longer itches after that one

Simply put, I have single handled built a business, acquired a turboprop, and operated it for multiple years now expanding my business. I have my own direct experiences to share and I spend my own money doing so. I am not paid or obligated to anyone or any company or board sponsor, and I see others like myself, such as Mike C, or Chris L, and I value their input on these subjects immensely

As do I...

Special case of ridiculous steep approach, downwind landings, lack of viable go around after a certain point, and customer pressure.

I'm not flying my plane to Aspen, be it jet or turboprop. Too risky. Besides, not my kind of town, anyway.

Mike C.

Chip, no feelings hurt on this end, I don't recall the conversation in the way that you do, but that's ok- you talk to a lot of people and work with a lot of airplanes, I only deal with my airplanes, and only with a handful of people along the way.

You'd lose

You must have a little more risk tolerance than the 90+% of jet pilots I see (don't see) flying on these days. Even the airlines don't roll at this airport when the conditions are like that. I am usually one of the first planes in at some of these airports since I have to be at work by 8AM, and on all ice days, and many snow days the only planes taking off and landing are the working turboprops, with the airlines and the biz jet people holding off on flying until the sun comes out and ops gets urea out on everything. I did come in one morning and found a Mustang abandoned just off the taxiway about 1000 feet from the FBO. I am guessing had no ability to slow or turn while taxiing so shut down. I would not be comfortable taking that much energy into poor or nil ground conditions, but to each is own. Seems like runway over-runs even on minimally slippery runways in the biz jet world is pretty epidemic.

I've flown different 500 series Citations and never seen one as nice as the Ciholas express. Up until recently they were considered beater jets until the market realized how much value they hold. An involved owner gets you cheaper opex but it also gets you a nicer airplane. One of the ones I fly has the old Collins tube HSI that goes blurry, and sometimes squeezes the screen or has lines. I suggested the Garmin upgrade and they look at me like I'm crazy to suggest they might spend ~300k. But now they've thrown 18-30k at it at least a few times. Most owners don't care what the pilots deal with.

As for costing less than a Meridian... if you need to take 7 pax from San Jose CA to Cabo San Lucas then sure, it's a lot cheaper.

You should see James Crossno’s airplane!