initial impact looks good

That there is a bunch of (obviously biased) negative assumptions....all piled together in one paragraph.

pylon engine mounting is usually preferred ..but ya know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862

That there is a bunch of (obviously biased) negative assumptions....all piled together in one paragraph.

with the info & numbers posted, do you consider it a failure?
viewtopic.php?p=2290573#p2290573


Cirrus has been shipping for 6 quarters that we have data on (2Q2017 through 3Q2018). Total units shipped: 63.

Eclipse through 6 quarters (1Q2007 through 2Q2008) had shipped 210 aircraft.

Shipping is not the same as being successful, nor does it indicate recent market interest for an aircraft starting deliveries with a long backlog. The people getting an SF50 now made the decision to buy it more than 10 years ago based on brochure, a bunch of vague promises.

The number I'd like to hear is how many new sales contracts for an SF50 have been signed since the plane has actually existed and the prospective customer had a ride in one prior to signing. Thus it had to sell based on its actual merits and not the brochure.

I suspect this number is very low, probably single digits. If so, that means they have saturated the market at ~500 units, or the plane doesn't sell well based on its true merits. Given there are already a fair number of used aircraft for sale, I count 5 of them so far, about 8% of the fleet, there's no reason to sign a delivery contract with Cirrus.

Mike C.

Right now that metric means nothing as anyone who wishes to purchase a new SF50 can just go and buy a position at a delivery point that fits his schedule. If they build their way through the existing positions and nobody else signs up, they have a problem. Too early to tell.

The SF50 failed to be the airplane I would buy.

The SF50 fails to be the true personal jet it could have been.

The SF50 could have achieved both very easily had their been just the smallest amount of clarity applied to the program at the start. A religious decision about being a single ruined it.

Whether the SF50 will be an economic success remains to be seen. I doubt the entire program will ever show a profit. One problem is that almost the entire order book is contracted at a low price. Even if there's some margin on deliveries, it will take a very long time to recoup the development price, if ever.

Mike C.

The SF50 failed to be the airplane I would buy.

Mike C.

Should my budget increase, the P300 would be in consideration.

There is no budget at which the SF50 would be, just too limited for the money.


Seems like they did:

"The Vision Jet is the realization of a vision to reimagine and reinvent the jet airplane in order to create a whole new category of aircraft —The Personal Jet. It’s a jet that’s designed to be flown by the owner."

I am very much the market for an owner flown jet. The SF50 doesn't cut it, however.


So far, the development costs drove them to sell to the Chinese after they were very close to bankruptcy.

Mike C.

I would love to know the price of a used P300 in 5 years.

You're not coming from a piston single and nor would you buy an Eclipse, right? The Eclipse is basically the twin engine version of the SF50. You are far from their target market. You've already experienced faster, farther, roomier, (higher?).

My guess is Cirrus will announce a twin jet, 7 seat plane in 2-3 years when the production rate of the SF50 falls off a cliff. They can't announce it now or the "magic" of the SF50 will be lost. Unfortunately for Cirrus it will have to be a complete clean sheet design, not just adding a G3000 to a CJ, and very little carry over from the SF50 so who knows when it could be released. My guess is they will use the SF50 as a sales tool to get people to put money down for the SF72 - Buy an SF50 today and lock in a price on the SF72...yada yada yada.

But if you're not already in the Cirrus ecosystem, I do not believe they consider you a lead, no matter what their exterior marketing says. Has anyone bought an SF50 who was outside of the Cirrus family?

Chip-

Not a chance.

My guess, about ~$4M. Typical $6-8M right now.


A well designed airplane should not be limited to that group.


Eclipse sized twin + Garmin + viable company = success. I would be very interested. Cirrus hits on two out of three.


I have previously called this the TF60.

Basically take the SF50 fuselage, fix the horrible back end with a conventional tail, and hang two PW610F engines on it. It would embarrass the SF50 in performance in every category being faster, higher, longer range, shorter runway, and more efficient all at the same time.


What a limited market, a jet only a Cirrus owner wants.


Examples have been previously given of this, but they are not many.

Mike C.

I can't wait to see full year 2018 SF50 deliveries. When is that data released?

thoughts on the 5 used ones on sale?

1 shows an easy price on this list
https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... ision-sf50
2017 CIRRUS VISION SF50
Jet Aircraft
Lone Mountain Aircraft Sales is proud to present this rare opportunity to own a Cirrus SF50 Vision Jet in 2018! N234HS is a gorgeous 2017 SF50 with 450 hours, Elite Package (All Options), Cargo X-Tend, ADS-B Weather & Traffic, and Cirrus Jetstream Premium/Concierge Package through 2020 or 600 h...
For Sale Price: USD $2,299,000